I don't know if this is news or not but I just read about it from a link in a program I'm a member at. It pertains to the laws that went into effect July 1st in the states of Michigan and Utah regarding commercial emails to minors (commercial emailers have until August 1st to comply). It looks pretty scary as the fines are stiff for 1st offenses and can even include jail time for further offenses.

Most PTR programs have an age limit of 13 years old which might be a problem. But even limiting it to 18 and over can be problematic since evidently you even need to make sure that even if the email belongs to an adult, that email is for the adult only... e.i. it's not sometimes used by the minor.

This is the link I received in the email:

http://www.boazepublishing.biz/ezine/archi...test_issue.html

And here are some articles about it...

http://www.newstarget.com/009068.html

http://www.spamfo.co.uk/component/option,c...d,344/Itemid,2/

http://news.com.com/Why+ribaldry+could+ear..._3-5761463.html

Hello,

Well, to me it is indeed news, as I never heard of that before.

I sent them an email at isipp (from one of the links you posted) to ask for more info and how it affects PTRs (which are in my opinion different from normal emailers).

Do you think you could forward me the email you said you received about this?

At any of my weallgetpaid addresses ;)

Olivier

Hi Olivier,

Thanks for looking into it. Unfortunately I can't forward the email to you as this particular program I'm in has a privacy clause in each email (we aren't allowed to reproduce, forward, copy or anything of that nature the emails they send) but the link they sent in the email, I posted in my first post of this thread.

Any program sending emails seems to be at risk to me since as the link I posted says:


This seems serious to me and it's something that could affect each and everyone of us members of PTR programs. More so than the problems encountered with Paypal lately.

With the Paypal problem, at least there were ways around it. But with this, if a program is in violation of these laws and gets fined, I seriously doubt any program, no matter how successful, can afford the 1st offense fines which seem to be between $5,000. to $250,000. That would mean buh bye program and buh bye to whatever earnings we would have had there.

Though I have no idea if this only affects US based programs as I can't see how they would go after someone outside the country.

I would hope it wouldn't apply to double opt-in mails as PTR is. But if it does, then I don't see any way to continue. We have no way to verify a member is the age he/she claims.

From the Michigan Website :


PTR owners will just have to be on the lookout, and make sure their databases don't contain 'registered' addresses.

At the end of the article in MenaC's last link there is a statement that these laws may have some problems holding up against the Can Spam Act. I do hope that none of us has to find out the hard way if they can or cannot. Though, I don't see anything that we can do about this at all with no way to verify a person's age. And does the double opt-in clause in PTR protect us from this at all. It seems that even having our databases scrubbed monthly throught the states involved would be ineffective if a parent seriously wanted to pursue this. And now I'm really wondering exactly how many PTR members are under 18...

A few more things (I'm reading the text of the bills).

No, the double opt in does not protect PTR owners. This places all the responsibility on the website, regardless of false information. It is not a simple procedure for parents to register. So the idea is parents are explicitly stating their children may not receive there material, regardless of what the children sign up for.

This part is the most disturbing. Another chip away at the internet :

So, you will have to pay a fee to get this list. If you're host or another service gets the list for you, you will have to pay 3 cents (or more, if the service decides to jack up the price) per eMail checked. How sweet.

Correct me if I'm wrong... but doesn't this affect only PTRs hosted in michigan and utah? Like illegal filesharing, you can still find hundreds of websites with that material, but they are hosted in countries with no laws regarding filesharing, so no action can be taken against them.

It affects all senders. eMail is being treated as an actual commodity, so this is restricting what can be 'imported' into the state. Constitutionally, states have the right to restrict imports and exports in their boundaries. We cannot affect what happens in other countries, and currently no charges are being brought against people in the US who download files illegally because the SC hasn't heard the case on it.

Re : CAN SPAM Act
The state found a way around it. In Section 8 of the CSA :

These states have made sending certain eMails to a minor computer crimes, effectively skirting the rules of the CSA. They didn't word it in a way to control 'eMail' but as a way to control a minor's access to 'illegal' [for them] activity.

Hmmm... not quite M07hM4n. Here in the Netherlands a Dutch citizen can be (and has been) exported to and tried in the US for allegedly providing an American tourist in Amsterdam with a joint.
Now I don't do adult ads but if one escaped me I shudder to think what type of reaction showing a (semi-)bare breast in an adult ad to a minor would provoke. The US would probably invade the Netherlands to come and get me, they already accepted a law allowing this some time ago...

edited to add a more serious note: 3 cents per check is horrible given the margins we work with. All that remains is banning all (future) members from Michigan and Utah. There's no way to check who is of age and who isn't... unless we go for demanding a copy of an ID or utility bill before someone can join. And even then....

This post has been edited by Essperanza: Jul 9 2005, 12:25 PM

PTR gets even more complicated....seems all the odds are against it!

Nevermind. Getting Off-Topic. Original quote was changed anyway.

:innocent:

This post has been edited by Altari: Jul 9 2005, 12:27 PM

I was thinking the same thing... the only safe route would be to not accept members from Utah and Michigan but how can anyone even check with certitude that the person isn't in Utah or Michigan. Does the whois really give the exact location of the IP No.?

Yes, there lies the problem. Sometimes it does give a city, but if I look at my own IP check it comes up with my ISP information. And my ISP is 200 kilometers from here - on the other side of the country. I guess it's very well possible that there are across-state border ISP's in the US.

Oh I just thought of possibly a safer course of action: no sending of emails :)

While I was reading the info on this, I kept thinking that 5StarPromotions and NoBannerZone would be safe since they do not send emails. All the clicking is done onsite including email links.

Or am I wrong in thinking that it's a way around the Utah & Michigan problem?