Most Of The GTPR Sites I Have Seen On The Internet Have a Special policy barring Indians and Chinese from signing up . I wonder If This doesnt amount To Some kinda RACIAL DISCRIMINATION. Whatz so wrong ... That GTPRs are forced to ignore ,we Asians???? I dont remember Scamming anyone??? Kindly Respond Webmasters.. and WebMistresses... TELL ME WHY??? ( This is a request :ph34r: )

It's a matter of people not under standing English, plus problems with people that come from those countries, some of which signing up multiple times for cheating etc. Whether them signing up multiple times or not stems from them not understanding English or not, it's hard to tell.

I Strongly Disagree with you Jaikula ... As Far As Not Understanding The language is Concerned, It isnt right to assume that Indians and chinese dont understand the language. Okay Fine... I am an indian and maybe I CANT take the liberty to speak for My Chinese pals... But Then.. Where there is discrimination.. someonez gotta speak up. As a matter of fact Contrary to what most people may believe, any user in India who has access to COMPUTERS is quite fluent in English ( and by fluency I dont just mean .. ability to speak)...
As For Multiple Sign-ups ......... Well I wont deny that maybe there are a lot of mutiple sign-ups From Our Countries... But Then.. Hypothetically speaking ... arent there problems from other countries as welll????But then unlike us.. none of the other countries are Singled out... I dont Think its right To Label ALL INDIANS and CHINESE as Fraudsters.

Anywayz.. Thanks for sharing Your Opinion... It Sure is valuable.

I'm not a webmaster, but from what I've seen, quite a bit of the cheaters come from India and China. No, not EVERYONE from India and China is a cheater, but, hypothetically, if 85% of the people from these counties cheat, why should the webmaster have to deal with deleting these accounts every month for the 15% that don't cheat?

If I owned a store, and the same group of teenagers came in and robbed my store everyday, I would DEFINITELY ban them from my store, even if one or two teenagers in the group never stole anything. Am I discriminating? No. I'm protecting my merchandise from a group of people I know will rip me off. Is it fair for the 2 people who belonged to the group that didn't steal? Not really, but when all 10 members of this thieving group is going to claim that they didn't do it, how can I trust any of them?

why do people keep bringing this point up


maybe they dont understand that webmasters have instituted this policy to keep thier programs alive

when the majority of cheaters come from these parts a webmaster s time is not effective used running a gptr , answering emails ect

they become consumed with cost cutting measures because of cheaters now you can say what you want but the majority of all cheaters come from china and india also a large amount of honest members that come from those countries dont understand enough english to either be reading the emails or actively participating in the program

its business not personal

why cant people understand that

Hmm.. I Hope This Opinion Of Yours changes.. But Then there are many other ways to protect your ,as you put it, merchandise.. like a CCTV. Besides we arent taking abt a group of 10 people we are in fact talking about 2 billion people .. may be more.. besides " WHERE THERE IS A WILL ... THERE IS A WAY "

But Yep I guess you are right when you say you have the right to protect your interests... everyone is doing jes that.. Perhaps EVEN ME ..

Thanx Again .. for some EnLightment

Shhh, don't be saying that, or we'll have WM's installing CCTV in our computer rooms to make sure we're reading the emails

It is hard to understand Billy for a honest person coming from India when u are left out of some really good programs like maniacmail etc. As far as not understanding english is concerned.... I would like to make a point that to even use a computer and visit websites u need a basic understanding of english.

Oops.. Thatz Talking not Taking ...... SORRY FOR THAT... I Hope That typo would not be misinterpreted for the inability to understand and write English. . Fine People .. I Guess I Give Up .. I am new to this.. and I had no idea that this was a topic of discussion earlier Too... My Apologies .. I Guess I shouldn't have brought it up.

.... Yep IT IS BUSINESS.... It Sure IS BUSINESS.. No Considerations Whatever... Where HARD-EARNED Money is considered.

Thanks a Lot ... Senior members for having enough patience to tolerate me..
Luv,
Simz

Thanks Athreya... ... I have been trying to tell people Just that here...

Luv,
Simz

Lol.. No They Wont.. Too Costly an affair..

erm.... just adding a thought here (and not really on Chinese and Indian users)...


Some programmes say "Only 1 account per household" and they check by postal address. Problem is, I live in a building complex with 44 other flats. So how on earth would I know if any of my neighbours (who all have the same postal addess as I do) joined the same programme?

A friend of mine lives in Frankfurt in a skyscraper. They even have their internet connection through a common proxy server.

I encountered one programme that accused me of cheating because one of my neighbours signed up under me (and of course has the same postal address). Took a while to explain to the US webmaster that in Germany it is quite common that many families live in flat buildings for rent and not own their own house as in the US. When the WM checked the ISP address, he noticed finally the difference *g*

And I also really dont like the prog that start of accepting all members and then say that earnings by Indians or Chinese can be used only for advertising etc....(paid-email-from-great-white-north)

Thatz a Good point ..Buddy,
Whoa Now.. we are getting somewhere... and yep.. as an after thought ... to think of it from the webmasters point of view.. maybe they are right abt cancelling such account.. But then... I dont think fraudsters are fools to leave trails of their fradulent policies...... If it was the same person trying to scam you by opening multiple accounts... I think he/she would have more sense than to have the same address for the accounts...

And yep.. ashreya... neither do i like.. sites which have dual policies.. But Then ... NOBODY like being scammed... ( and well.. "Once burnt Twice Shy" Argh.. guess " Once Scammed Twice shy " would be more appropriate for the WM )

Unless WM's lie like mad, I've stated no opinion. It's a statistical fact that most of the GPT cheaters come from China and India. Why, for any other reason, would so many program owners come together and decide that they just "didn't like" people from these countries? It isn't fair for you, and the other honest people like you, who never have cheated, or never intend to. But, put yourself in the program owners shoes, and if you had to deal with the same problem, what would you do? Could you find a solution fair to everyone? Or, in your opinion, should the webmasters just deal with the mass amounts of cheats from these countries, and never have time to maintain their programs, so that the honest members have a chance?

Yep I agree With You Scamper.. But Itz not Complete agreement.... Yes WMs have their own reasons.. but then i dont think it still is fair...

anywayz.. " NOONE CAN PLEASE ALL " so i guess.. I as an indian and others like me.. have to bear the brunt of it



Luv,
Simz

[quote=athreya,May 31 2003, 02:37 PM]why cant people understand that[/QUOTE]
It is hard to understand Billy for a honest person coming from India when u are left out of some really good programs like maniacmail etc. As far as not understanding english is concerned.... I would like to make a point that to even use a computer and visit websites u need a basic understanding of english.[/quote]
Just to clarify, we at Maniac Mail do not exclude people from India or China from joining our program. We do however ask they submit an email requesting permission to join. This gives us the opportunity to explain our program rules, answer any questions they may have, and ensure that they have a basic understanding of english. When we started our program, we did have a number of issues related to english comprehension from members in these countries in particular. It is our policy to be responsive to our entire membership, not just those from english speaking countries. We want to ensure that all of our members may benefit from our program and stay in compliance with our Terms of Service.

Yes, there are certain aspects of our program that we do not allow participation in, however we do compensate with specially targeted emails and we do explain that in detail to new signups. As a result, we have very active members from India and China who know that we do indeed pay and appreciate them.

Lisa

Thanks For the clarification Lisa... Good to know that you do accept Indians and Chinese but with special requests... .. Now maybe thatz not please all.. but it sure pleases many. Hope other WM .. also take this innovative approach of yours...

Thanx a lot ,[btw... i guess you are going to recieve an email as a request from an indian ( ME ) for signing up ... I Hope against all Hope that U would accept it ]...
Luv,
Simz

[quote=Saucylookz,May 31 2003, 07:56 AM][QUOTE=spfp1,May 31 2003, 03:51 PM][QUOTE=athreya,May 31 2003, 02:37 PM]why cant people understand that[/QUOTE]
It is hard to understand Billy for a honest person coming from India when u are left out of some really good programs like maniacmail etc. As far as not understanding english is concerned.... I would like to make a point that to even use a computer and visit websites u need a basic understanding of english.[/QUOTE]
Just to clarify, we at Maniac Mail do not exclude people from India or China from joining our program. We do however ask they submit an email requesting permission to join. This gives us the opportunity to explain our program rules, answer any questions they may have, and ensure that they have a basic understanding of english. When we started our program, we did have a number of issues related to english comprehension from members in these countries in particular. It is our policy to be responsive to our entire membership, not just those from english speaking countries. We want to ensure that all of our members may benefit from our program and stay in compliance with our Terms of Service.

Yes, there are certain aspects of our program that we do not allow participation in, however we do compensate with specially targeted emails and we do explain that in detail to new signups. As a result, we have very active members from India and China who know that we do indeed pay and appreciate them.

Lisa[/QUOTE]
Thanks For the clarification Lisa... Good to know that you do accept Indians and Chinese but with special requests... .. Now maybe thatz not please all.. but it sure pleases many. Hope other WM .. also take this innovative approach of yours...

Thanx a lot ,
Luv,
Simz[/quote]
Greetings from Sri Lanka. We do the same at TKO. NEW members from China and India are required to write to us before signing up. No one is banned from any of TKO sites.

We look forward to having a new "Maniac" in the family!

Hmm.. Thanx a Lot.,..... BTW are any other programs having this same policy...?????????????????????

lol a basic understanding

read the terms of the site you just have to email the webbie

thats it

as for basic, i understand chinese to a degree and also a bit of french, but i would classify myself competent to read and understand all advertisers if they were in those languages

really its a shame some residents of a country have to pay for what a few do but should all the members of a ptr suffer because of this no, so webmasters have implemented these rules or conditions, i dont think its fair when a weebbie is spending hours tracking down cheaters, when they could be reading contact/support emails or adressing other problems /concerns with thier sites

Thatz really nice to Know... any more takers here?????????????

I can check into it for you if you'd like. Send me a pm with your email address and I'll get a list together for you, then you can check contact the webmasters directly if you have questions that aren't answered in their TOS.

Personally I think that the sites that ban people from any country outright are wrong...

I do understand the point about cheaters, but the actual percentage of cheaters is not that large...even though the percentage of cheating accounts may well be, as we know there have been some people who signed up with 100 accounts...

And some of them are quite foolish...similar names, similar passwords etc...

While I entirely agree with the requirement that all members have a basic understanding of the English Language, why single out Indians or Chinese?, I've met quite a few Germans, French, Italians and Spaniards who did NOT have a basic command of English (and come to think of it, a few americans as well... )

Of course the answer is probably mostly the annoyance of WMs with the amount of cheaters from those two countries, but all the same, they should go after the cheaters not after countries...

Just my 2cents worth...

MY WORDS EXACTLY

I agree, and I am quoting a recent post of mine from another thread in this forum on a similar issue.

QUOTE
One of my first posts here was about the issue of certain countries being 'banned' from certain programs (that was several months ago).

I just read over that post again - at the time there weren't many replies, obviously the issue was not interesting to most, as the countries banned were more like, well .... not the usual, big respected countries like the U.S., Canada, or European countries.

At the time I made it my mission not to join ANY program that was banning ANY country. Like I stated in my post back then: There are no cheating countries, only cheating members.

But at the time, judging from the number of replies to my post, people weren't overly concerned, but WOW, what an uproar when WELK1 declared that he was banning countries like Canada, Germany, France and a few more ... 15 pages of posts and so many insulted members (the reason for this banning might have been different than the reason most others use as an excuse for banning, but still banning is banning, and it is discriminating).

The one good thing that came of that whole story is that some WM's openly declared that they will from now on allow ALL international members to join. So, in a way we have to thank WELK1 for bringing us closer together.

I personally feel insulted each time I see a website saying 'members of here and there (mostly China and India)' are not allowed. No, I am not citizen of neither China nor India, but I am citizen of the world, and as such I feel betrayed and insulted by these WM's.
UNQU


Granted, the subject is that a large amount of cheaters seem to come from these countries (WM's would anyone care to share with what the percentages are exactly?), but then again, there is huge amount of potential members from these countries that are honest. And wouldn't it make more sense to invest in better anti-cheating software, thus being able to catch ALL cheaters, from whatever country, more easily, ran than banning whole countries (maybe an easy solution for the WM, but doesn't it have to be considered -besides the ethical aspect - that WM's are losing many good members, i.e. potential revenue, too)?

The only reason I find acceptable for not accepting a member is lack of knowledge of English. This is definitely not true for Indians. Besides, many programs have already incorporated an English test/Anti-Cheating link in most of their emails.

I wish to commend all those programs that do accept members from all countries. These definitely are preferred by me over those that bluntly ban whole countries.

Hey Naama that was an intresting bit of quote...Itz Good to know that there has been a lot of outrage ( am i exaggerating???... I think not).But I Do believe that the solution to a problem is .. not by refusing to acknowledge it ... but by paving a way... RIGHT THROUGH IT... Lets not behave as if theres no problem..( by boycotting such programs) but prove to these webmasters that what they believe is a fallacy... an illusion.

An american hacker ( Xcuse me people .... Dont get excited by this.. I am giving an example.. My Apologies to all those who I have offended) may create 10,000 accounts with various sign-in names and stuff... but .. would that mean.. they would debar all americans from their sites????.. I GUESS NOT.

A Lot Of GPR members here have extended their support for the WM.. by saying that it may not be very economical for the WMs to check .. recheck and then cancel accounts of dishonest people...

I aint qualified enough to make statements here.... I know that most members here.. have more knowledge and experience than me... But i do believe that a solution to suit everyone... ( atleast most of the people ) can be though over. ...

All I want to do by posting these messages here is not create a sympathy wave...But reach out to more people.

Be aware that foreign users can use computers that are in their own language. And if they don't understand English, they wouldn't go to English sites, they'd go to sites in their language. I could even reinstall my XP in Chinese just to show you.

A Website is owned just like the home someone lives in. The homeowner has every right (At least in the USA) to allow or disallow access to anybody they like. It's not discrimination.

Phil

Yes, NutCase, I know that you do run a very exclusive Club indeed.

And I do reserve the right to disagree with this not being discrimination. The WWW is an international place after all.

The world is also international, just like the WWW. We can own property in the world, and we can own space on the WWW. It's pretty much the same and up to us what we want to do with our property or space.

Yes, it is Superfly. Which does not make certain things that we choose to do with our property or space less unethical or discriminating

Yep Maybe ... You can load XP in chinese... But Is there a Hindi version .. or a tamil version of XP???... I Guess Not.. In India.. If You Wanna Use a computer system.. You Need to Know.. Some English... atleast the basics for reading and writing.. You Have to Be literate... ( mind you i said literate.. Not Educated ).



Yeah You Are RIGHT NUTCASE... Itz Your choice to allow or disallow people.... but then.. All We ARE talking of here.. is why debar innocents... ??? I Dont Remember slitting your throat open?? Nor do i remember breaking into your house... ???
As a matter of fact...We Are strangers.. PERFECT STRANGERS... Well Guess I answered my own question ... " We Are Strangers ".. so i guess it aint right for me to think that you would care two pennies about Us... Thanx For The Non-chalant Attitude .. Dear ( Reminder To ME :- Mind your own business Fool )

NO QUESTIONS ASKED... if thatz what Web-Masters want... That is what they will get ... But I Thought This forum was made to address such issues.. i Guess I THOUGHT wrong.


Luv,
Simz

I don't ban countries and I don't intend to do so in the future.

THANX A LOT BUDDY... THAT COMming from a Webmaster .. Is Definitely a Boost To Our Cause.. Hope ALL others Think of this .. as you do

Most likely your best bet would be to contact any webmaster/read the TOS sections of any program you wish to join. You'll be able to find out directly from the ones you want to join, which will accept you. I'd imagine that you taking the time to express your interest and contact them would mean something positive.


~ Ambrie ~

I am the first webmaster to change my mind due to the postings regarding Welk1's behaviour.

I own SendMeCash and implemented the policy when I first started my site a few weeks ago to ban China and India.

I never felt comfortable with that dsecision but felt it was good business sense to take this precaution to reduce the number of cheaters.

After the uproar due to Welk1 I recanted this decision and had as yet not deleted a single member for breaking the TOS. I had them marked to be deleted but not done.

I have a CAC site and many of you are familiar with this script, it must be done manually to prevent the loss of downlines.

My hubby has been working on finding ways to fix all the bugs without scrapping the whole script and starting over.

As of that day our site has become TRULY INTERNATIONAL! I only had one email from a disgruntled member saying they were quitting because it was my choice but they did not agree.

I happily said "GoodBye then!"

If you wish to know any more about my program just pm me and I will gladly tell you what you want to know, ok?!

Patricia

Hi, Patricia

I can only compliment you on your decision, and please do PM me your program.

While I am not personally effected by a WM's decision to ban certain countries, this is more of a principle and ethical issue for me - like I have mentioned throughout my posts- and I feel it is important to support those sites that do welcome all international members, like yourself and freeandeasy.

I allow everyone!!
I simply ask that any members coming from China or India should email me for permission stating that they have just signed or they would like to sign.

I do not delete members just because they are from India or China!
I have lots of friends from India and a few from China.

Infact one of my friends(Shamsher) knows of the problem there in India. He is not a cheater and I would definately never label him one.

I go by proven facts that someone has cheated.
Then that person will be banned....not the whole country.



Just my 2 cents...

I also changed my rule bout disallowing chinese to join after welks malfunction and uproar..

So far its fine still have a few that keep signin back up after i delete them for cheating .. I only ask that india write first so that i can make sure they dont use rediffmail it clogs up the site with bounced mail and so far they have been understanding the ones who ask.

Im not predujuce (man i cant even spell it) at all. All ppl are the same in my mind. Cheaters are every color shape and attitude there is.

Only thing i really dislike is when someone from one coutry signs up and puts a different country in for their profile.. Ips are track able..
I really dont understand why some do this.

i just feel that ppl will hate me if they want to but im not going to give them a reason to..

Banning china is almost like if a site said NO MEN allowed to sign but it is discrimination.

I can sort of understand that. People move around the world a lot these days, if someone from wasn't born and bred in the country they now live in they may put the country they're from.

Obviously this probably sin't the case with cheaters, butwith others it may well be........

That is the easiest way to find if they are cheating. lol

Your comments make no sense. Sorry you misunderstood my post.

Be that as it may, a fact is a fact, if a webmaster gets a high rate of disturbances from a certain demographic he/she has every right and should disallow access to their site from that demographic. Sorry!

I'm not saying everybody should disallow content and I am not saying I disallow content. I am just pointing out a way for a webmaster to stop habitual problems from happening.

You might want to remove that chip off your shoulder.

Phil

It's descrimination. Period.

Dictionary


But any program owner has the right to discriminate if they want to. At least I haven't seen any international law on discrimination.

You may not agree with their discrimination, but they CAN and WILL do it.

I'm just waiting for descrimination against Americans. When's that going to happen?

We all know that alot of asians and indians are honest users

I know some indians and chinese off the forum and they are the greatest most honest people around

I also know some not so honest.. the hackers and the cheaters

Simply.. a higher % of chinese & indians cheat than any other country

1/4 of my member base is from these countries.. yet they account for 95% of cheating

*cant forget the 300 fake accounts we're in the process of deleting from a chinese cheater*

Obviously you are not one of these people and thats great Chinese and indians are some of the nicest people out there and it is a shame those that do wrong ruin it

See, here is where you are wrong! It's not discrimination or unethical to disallow access to a website on the bassis of previous theft.

What about the brick and mortor store owner that has set up shop in a scool zone. Do they discriminate when they say that they want only 3 students in their store at one time? I think not! Why does the store owner have this rule? Maybe because he has been ripped off by a couple of students before? Is it unethical? No, the store owner has a business to run and is doing what he has to do to limit his losses.

So, you spout ethics and discrimination like it is your right to go into any privetly owned space you like without taking into consideraton the webmasters views and experiences. Shame on you! Call the ACLU the next time you are disallowed access to a website. I'm sure they will help you.

Phil

well, people can limit access to sites or not. if you get a valuation on house and have a list of properties that have sold recently, you can find these on a website. can you freely access it? no, you need to pay or have a password to get in. is this discrimination? nope. this info is available free after a few months...

some freebie sites require you to sign up to see the recent freebies to gain a bigger/better membership. others that don't just get to see the old ones.

at least if wm's have to approve signups from these countries, they are taking doing something in a more controlled way ~ as opposed to letting things get out of hand and then having a massive cleanup which in turn will cause the wm a massive headache!! (it's called keeping on top of it, lol)

Non-english websites in a world where english is the common business language limits access to English only speaking people.

Phil