First this doesn't apply to all WM, some do regular house cleaning and they delete their inactives from the membership base.
But to the others, lets get back to being honest. Your advertsing rates are base on how many members you have CLAIMED, so your prices are DISHONEST!!!!!!!!!

Don't like my words TOUGH!!! I don't like paying .01 ads to all members and getting 10% to 20% click rate. Clean up your membership and have a true count. Get rid of inactives and warn those that are semi inactive. Those that click a link or two in a month, those that have hundreds if not thousands of paid e-mails they haven't click. Get rid of them! All their doing is hurting you
in getting advetising. An their making me quiting buying advertising with certain sites because of lousy click rate percentages.
One WM go so far as after a couple of days he/she DELETES the members advertising stats. On a 9000 plus membership base I get 1400 clicks?
Another site claims over 9000 members I get a 1200 click count!! Another
site has a claim base of over 8000 members I get a 1300 click count.
This goes on and on. Not just the bigger claim membership sites, some of the smaller ones are just as bad.

I rather advertise with a membership base of 1200 and get 1000 clicks.
Clean up your claim membership base count if not then at least be honest and offer your member guarentee clicks, at no aditional cost.
If your claiming 7000 members, you should at least offer 3500 guarenttee clicks on a paid to all ad.
But think about it, once a member buys advertising and see his/her stats,
the jig is up. Your not fooling anyone by claiming members who are not active.

Generally when I buy an ad ... I ask to webmaster how many clicks I can expect and they usually answer honestly based on their experience, so I know what I buy .... and am not irritated afterwards ;-)

Sophie

Opppsie, have hit enter too fast .. wanted to add, you can't get rid of people because all off a sudden you think they don't click 'enough', if they joined and promoted when there was no minimum click thru requirement, putting additional requirements afterwards is a bit .... unfair ? harsh ? despotic ? .... make your choice ;-)

Sophie

But then, when has that ever stopped a program owner changing terms before?

Think so? Read the TOS of sites concerning being inactive.

Their are a lot of great sites that clean out their inactives. To them as a advertiser I say thanks.

I would also like to add that these same WMs should be honest with their members. If the bulk of your paid emails are going to be paid searches, then you should state this on the site. This would probably keep you from having so many inactives.

I am sure a lot of you seen this in sites advertising sections. Send a paid ad to 5000, 6000, 7000, and to all members.

They are basing their prices on inactives. When you send a paid e-mail to say 5000 members of a site that has 7000, you expect 5000 clicks. If you
send to all you expect at least 90% click rate. Because you paid the premium
high rate for it.

So get rid on the inactives or if you only got a 30% active click rate membership then charge for that. Not for members gone or not active.

The area questions that should also be raised here to you clickguy.

Just how long AFTER you have sent your ad are you looking at click rates. One or two days after, the really you should wait longer. If it's more than a week or so, then yes you can complain.

The other question is, what type of ad is it. Exit Cash Flow, Share Ad Space or a Search Email.

If they are any of those three there, not many people will click those links if they are marked as that. Specially if you get them day in day out over many sites.

You are so interesting at times. How old, some sites I have belong to for years, others for months. I can click my stats for ads in some sites going back from months/years depending on the ad and see almost the same click rate percentage for all the ads sent out over 2 weeks old.. From 14% to 20%. Not counting more current ads that have been sent out, seems they get up to a certain click count percentage and stop. For all practical purposes once 2 weeks go by thats your click count percentage. On resends you can gain a few clicks, if the WM does resends.
Many paid e-mails expire, or don't have a guarenttee click count.

But if you really want a newer one try this one, its only 6 days old; I doubt very much if it will go over 20%.


422 of 3000 members (14.07%) have confirmed this mailing,
which was sent on May 15.

I think its time members get what they pay for. This paid all to all members doesn't mean dilly squat in a dishonest ad price base on a false membership count. Some WM ought to be ashame of themself for charging for actives they do not have. Other WMs can stand up and take applause for having a honest count of their members. Why should members pay for inactives that will not be clicking on their ads!!!!!

I pay for action not for a sites bogus membership count!!!!!!!!

SocialistPaidEmail members who have been
inactive for a very long time are deleted
occasionally, and this will occur on Sunday.

All points seized from inactive members will
be redistributed to active members.

I might be interesting but it was a legit question. Lots of people wont click on search links, ECF and SAS because they get sick of seeing them all the time, or have already searched at that search site more than enough.


Also, look at how many people are part of the site, then look at how many other sites they are members at. I can tell you now that I do all the sites that expire first before doing any others, which explains why I still have over 100 emails dating back at least 3 days. I'm only a member at about 6 sites...

Nope no searches, nothing but advertisements for gaining referals. Just other PTRs or PTC is all I ever send.

It matters not how many sites a member belongs to, Their trying for payout,
remember; cash!!! Money, Moola!!!

A .01 paid ad is more then enough for a member to click for. I belong to 32 sites and all paid e-mails are click daily. None are older then 12 hours before they get click.

People shouldn't bite off more then they can chew. Its not fair to them, the WM, or the advertisers.

All TKO sites (Email Traffic Kingdom, Paid2Read, Hot Cash, Madams Money and Sunset Mails) will have their data bases cleaned of all inactives, cheaters and members whose emails bounced more than 7 times. This will be done from 25th May till 1st June, 2003 (we are going to do a thorough cleaning). We are sending a mail today to all TKO memebrs regarding this.

We are also deleting members with bad email addresses and members who have filled in incorrect personal details.

An doing that gives you a high click through rate percentage. Which will bring more advertising to your site.

Honesty is still the best policy. Good for you!!!!!!!

This is a completely understandable complaint. My site is basically a baby compared to others so I have been experimenting with ads and prices. What I think I am going to do is to use guaranteed click pricing only. Meaning that the ad runs over and over no matter how long until seen by 200, 300 or however many different people. No time limit, but only run the ad pricing as per my active database count, which I do delete on the first of every month. I guess some WM's would be embarrased as to there count, but I say WealthByEmail--700 and proud lol. I am guessing about 50 inactives are included I will find out June 1

[quote=Jaikula,May 21 2003, 08:58 PM][/QUOTE]
I might be interesting but it was a legit question. Lots of people wont click on search links, ECF and SAS because they get sick of seeing them all the time, or have already searched at that search site more than enough.[/quote]
I have to totally disagree with that statement.

Do you honestly believe that if an ECF link is labeled 1/4 or 1/2 cent, people will pass it up just because they "get sick of seeing it all the time"?
People even click search links when they have no intention of searching.

It's all about the cash. Most people could care less what is being advertised.........they will click ECF links all day long if it gets them closer to payout.

Look at 1Heluva for example. Did people stop clicking because they got sick of seeing the same sites all day long? NO. They clicked and clicked and clicked till their fingers wore out because they wanted the cash!!!!!!!

I believe there is quite a bit of deceptive membership counts going on these days.
People will click no matter what..........if those people really do exist.

Yes correct.

Even before, when members contact me about advertising (how many members we have and how many click), I have always been upfront with them ("we have this many members but only xyz click, but cannot guarantee if it is a search or exit cash flow") But I am very happy to say that the click thru rate in all our sites are improving and hopefully after purging our system of all cheaters, inactives and bouncing mails, it will improve further.

It does not matter if our member count shrink to 500 in all our programs. At least we know that those 500 are active and we are proud about it

I deleted inactives regularly.....and get a kick out of those who have not clicked in like 45 days or more and all of a sudden......wonder why they were deleted......


even when you do that..........members are getting picky at times.........lots of have standards and wont click links under a certain value......and whatever else....

in regards to ad prices........alot depends.........Are you buying directly off ad page.........most of the time I have ad specials and I take a loss......but use the money from searches to go back into site.

Many dont take in referral % into account either.........


I suggest email the webmaster or ask others..........

Just my 1/2 Cent

Lol Richard has been busy. For those of you who are interested to know the member count in ETK, the details are as follows (this is as of today):

ETK Membership is 3832 (after deleting the following members)

**********

521 account have not used their account since feb 2003. So they have been deleted.

184 accounts were delete for cheating. These members have more than 1 account.

289 accounts were deleted for bad emails. We have been emailing members continuously regarding this. These members can email us their new email address and we will reinstate their account.

199 Accounts were deleted as their emails bounced more than 7 times

****



Oh yes, tomorrow we sort out paid2read (our other program)

I see what clickguy is seeing...as a member and webmaster. I now clean out 30 days inactives weekly.

You pay say $25 for an ad to almost 40,000 members (what the program says are ACTIVE members) and then 2 weeks later you barely have 1,000 hits....that's really, really sad. The TRUE ACTIVE count and the number of total members are not the same.

I deleted more than 500 members so far

I not only am cleaning out inactives, but when I sell ads to a certain number of members, they don't expire until that number is clicked.

In other words, if I sell an ad to 500, I set it to expire at 500 clicks, but I send it to all members.
Then if necessary, I put it on the paid email links page and new members click as they join.

This seems to me to be the most sensible way to do it.

Tell me, what person gives an ECF link at 1/4 or 1/2 cent link when you are only getting $1.10 per 1000 visitors, I certainly wouldnt, it aint worth it. Now sending it out through PMI as a 10 pointer, that's worth it

Nor was I saying that clickguy was wrong about the deceptive numbers, because I do know there are sites out there, which remain nameless on here, do have deceptive memberships. You cant tell me that there are sites that have a membership database over 5000 and I mean true numbers, not numbers across the sites you own, like one set of sites does.


I know one site just recently decided to go the route, and I agree with this and might even impliment it into my site once I get it started, that you have to clicked at least 50% of the emails that your referals click on. So even if you have a really active referral in your downline and think that just by clicking one or two emails now and then to keep yourself active means you are going to get the ful amount of your downline's ref percentage again, then think again. Those two emails you clicked on might have only had gotten you 1 or 2 cents into them, but the 'superclicker' within your downline aint going to help you since all you are going to get back as a ref bonus from him is probably about 1/2 of a cent, if you are lucky. Now who do you blame for that, certainly not the WM, since it is your own fault thinking you can be lazy and do nothing for the extra cents.

Hi,

This is absolutely not the case for me, have a job, children, a life and all what goes with it ... mails can stay sometimes for more than a week in my box... then I open them, scroll and see if there is something interesting .. skipping searches and ECF if I don't have enough time.

I don't feel I HAVE to click on an ad if it doesn't interest me, whatever the money an advertiser gives me to do that.

And regardless the number of members, sending an ad until it reaches paid clickthru rate like FreeAndEasy does seems to me to be the best way ....

Hi ;-)

So everyone who didn't click on searches because they didn't like it will have to click on them to have this 50% ... doesn't mean they'll search tho ... ;-)

And you'll also put a notice in profile or account to say how many % of his referral mails a member has clicked or will your members have to click having no clue if they reach that 50 % or not ?

Thanks

Sophie

Concerning,

even when you do that..........members are getting picky at times.........lots of have standards and wont click links under a certain value......and whatever else

I can't speak for others but I don't like waiting 30 seconds for 1/10 of a cent.
I click them but I prefer sites that reduce the time to 10/15 seconds for cheap links. If I get to irritated I just unsubscribe.

in regards to ad prices........alot depends.........Are you buying directly off ad page.........most of the time I have ad specials and I take a loss......but use the money from searches to go back into site.

From e-bay, specials offered by the WM and off the ad pages. So far I estimate about 400.00 in the last 60 days spent on ads and preminum memberships.
Its paid off nicely referal and payouts have jump very nicely.

Yes referal percentages do play a part but if the WM is not active in obtaining ads, having a high referal percentage does nothing for a members earnings. Small referal percentages sites can still pay well, you just need to get more referals by advertising. An advertising by the right sites where you get a honest click count for your money.

On ome point I disagree. To me not sad, MAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Their is no justification in any PTR LYING about their membership base. Then to use those numbers to base their often very high ad prices on non active members who do not click is nothing more then a SCAM!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get rid of those that haven't click, and do it monthly!

Tell me, what person gives an ECF link at 1/4 or 1/2 cent link when you are only getting $1.10 per 1000 visitors, I certainly wouldnt, it aint worth it. Now sending it out through PMI as a 10 pointer, that's worth it

Manic mail, noeys, and others I have seen those from .005 to .01. Tell me do you belong to any of them? Have you even taken the time to read about what those sites offer for referals. Exit cash flow offers a nice cash bonus for each and every referal. Their not just after the 1/10 of a cent, they are after referals. SHEEEEEEEESH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I got news for you. I too have a life, and I use my time wisely. I don't waste it. If you click on a regular schedule and treat it like a second job you can get it done. An still have plenty of time for other things. On the average I get 25/50 paid e-mails a day not counting lol noeys who is good for 25/40 a day herself.

I don't feel I HAVE to click on an ad if it doesn't interest me, whatever the money an advertiser gives me to do that.

Well lets just say I would not want you for a member. To me thats violating the tos of most sites. You agree to recieve e-mails and to click on them.

Kays PTC section has an exit cash flow ad for 2 cents.

Oh come off it, you know he was talking about PTR not PTS. Almost every site now has its searches voluntary except PTS sites.

I agree about a member clicking a certain % him/herself in order to earn from his/her referrals. There are members who are living off their referral earnings. They click only an occasional link so that they do not get deleted.

It's true that members spend a lot of time and money in building downlines, but this does not make any difference to the advertisers because what they expect is a good click thru and response to their advertisements.

OOooh you wouldn't want me as a member ? ;-)

Well, FYI, I might not click on every single link but when I click on search I search and yesterday, instead of joining thru downline builder like many do, I joined 2 sites because the ad I found in my paidlink was a good one so I supported advertiser. For one of those sites I joined thru the paidlink, I sent out a paidlink myself, so that advertiser has now a referral more and probably will have some indirect .... wow, did I violate TOS here as well ?

I don't click on everything like mad to earn 1 cent but I am fair, my clicks are more valuable than some heavy clickers who don't read the ad ... don't search but click on search ... just click clikc click click ...

So, please, don't agress me, I do with my time what I want and so do you ;-)
It's not all black and white .... if we don't agree on a something, it doesn't mean one is completely wrong and one is completely right and I don't think a lot of webmasters will delete my account because I honestly tell I don't click on every single link .... for me when I advertise, clicks from people who don't intend to join or support me are useless anyway ... so I prefer when they don't click ;-)

Sophie

I don't understand that .. when I as an advertiser sent out a search ad ... won't it count for that 50 % Jaik is talking about ?

And a lot of sites have searches for webmasters as paidlinks like advertisers links ...

Duh, really don't understand your 'oh come off it'

Sophie

Oh now your presuming others who click on every ptr link don't read them.
I disagree on that I read them. The hundreds of referals I have gained read. If they didn't read they never would of joined up under me. I write most of my own ads.

You can't have it both ways saying you click only when your interested then say your such a good member.

Good members click on every PTR ad that is sent to them, and they read all the ads.

I may create a site and if I do their will be a 85% click rate to remain a member. No free rides. Its ripping off the WM and the advertisers.

I really don't think we should click every link. I am really against it..
If we are not interested at all in a particular ad,why should we click that link?
Even if we click that ad,that doesn't help that advertiser because we are not interested.. & just wasting advertiser's money..
(Of course this does not apply to sites like ECF )


I have seen some members who are just clicking every links very honestly & diligently(?),but they don't support us.. I think most of them are not really understanding English.
They are clicking even cheater link diligently.

Is that how you work your real life job? No one forces any one to join a ptr.
When you sign up you agree tp read the advertisements sent you. Without advertisements their would be no PTRs. By taking a attitude and clicking only what interest you, your not upholding your part of the agreement with the site you joined.

The WM gets much poorer click stats which makes it harder for them to gain more advertisers and to keep the ones they have. Advertisers don't get full value for the money they spend on the ads. When that happens they begin to go elsewhere to advertise.

This attitute of clicking selected ads is not heathy for the ptr industry. It can harm a site if to many members have that atitude. Even kill it off.

A site that has a great click rate can get more ads, increase prices which gives more money to share with its members. Which in turn means more members joining when the word spreads on how well members are treated monitary wise by the WM. An it just keeps on growing.

That is not always true.

I will give you an example.
I got a NPA from a site recently & saw this text at the bottom of the ad: if you joined this program already,don't click this link.

What do you think this means?
The webmaster or advertiser don't want to waste their money.
They don't want you to click that link If you are not going to support them.
The same thing does apply to the search emails.
When you get search mails,you are not supposed to click these links if you are not going to do search.

I am not telling that members have the right to be inactive
I also want active members,but I don't think members should click every links they get..
(this is from the point of advertiser)

Hi,

Well, ppprk is a webmaster and a downline builder (I think ), so she advertises a lot and know what she's talking about ... clickguy, what is your click worth for us advertisers if you join in downline builder at GPF anyway ?

So, advertisers and webmasters can't force you to join thru their ad and support them and the PTRindustry but blaming others who prefer not to click when they know they won't be of any use to Webmaster and advertiser but to higher the clickthru ratio .... seems a bit wierd to me.

Fortunately, with so many sites otu there, everyone can find what fits his needs and desires ... so, you wouldn't want me as a member because I don't click, click, click ... the sites where I supported advertisers yesterday by joining thru paidlinks are not unhappy to have me ....

Want to toss in anything else that has zero relationship?

I have seen some members who are just clicking every links very honestly & diligently(?),but they don't support us.. I think most of them are not really understanding English.
They are clicking even cheater link diligently.

This has no bearing at all to the subject. You know it often just amazes me how people post in this forum.

The topic of this thread was about WM having a honest membership count and delete inactives. So members will not pay dishonest ad prices inflated by false membership counts.

But then again you have some of the same people arguing.

They argue against having honest membership counts, and deleting inactives. An protesting against some WMs charging improper prices for their ads base on false counts.

Makes you wonder why they argue, doesn't it?

Hi,

This is a forum .. so conversations go on ... it started with inactives and member counts and continued because of the answers we gave one another ... seems you don't want to play anymore ;-)

And it's all about the same, 100% active doesn't mean valuable members .. that's the point we wanted to explain here ... so, it was not off topic ...

Sophie

I saw that discussion going between you & sophieca...
I was not starting any new discussion.

For me,what sophieca said make sense.

Not by what that person posted. But thanks for the warning any WM that likes inactives, doesn't care if people don't click on the links is a site I have no desire to join.

By your logic a honest 50% active member is better then a honest 100% active member.

I disagree, a 100% honest active member is twice more valuable to a PTR site and the advertisers.

Then to have her throw in 100% cheaters comment, care to call more of your forum friends over sophie?

ROFL ... about twisting words here .. as if ppprk as a webmaster liked inactives, told ya, it's not all black and white ;-)

I really don't understand why you don't understand what I said,but you are not really understanding this & only see one side..

Lets say an advertiser bought 1000 clicks for an old program.
If members who are already members don't click that link,the advertiser might get some referrals
but if everyone has to click that link when they are already members,the advertiser is wasting money & will get less or no signup

No one in this thread said WMs want inactive members.Who did?
WM DO want active members,but that does not mean they are forcing members to click Every single paidlink.

I must be picking up your bad habits !! LMAO

I am not too sure about this clickguy but I don't like it ... I will stop the conversation here, until now it was more or less funny ... have no clue what you're talking about and am not really interested, I don't need any agressivity and insinuations with my morning tea.

Have a nice day/night

Sophie