I am interested in picking member's minds on the issue of an order I have placed at a Certain PTR, which has not been -and probably never will be- fulfilled by this Certain PTR. I prefer to leave this site anonymous in the meantime (even though some might guess by the name), as I am checking legal options as well.

10 days ago I purchased a gold membership via E-Gold at a Certain PTR. After 4 days had passed during which I had received no confirmation and my account was not upgraded at the site, I left a message via the contact form on the site. No reply was received. Another message was left on the site - no reply. And yet another message via the site - again no reply. In the meantime one week had passed.

The next day the owner/admin of sent out an email re. ad swap or a similar issue that included the owner/admin's email address (which I did not have before). I wrote to this address, and indicated that as I had placed an order a week ago and never received a confirmation, I was requesting a refund.

Guess what - no reply. The next day I sent a reminder, also copying my E-Gold payment information which included my username. Finally I received a reply from the PTR admin/owner that my previous mails were not received and asking for my username so the upgrade could be done and that no refund would be given. I replied immediately with my username (BTW - my username was mentioned twice in the previous emails which were listed just below the one where I was asked for my user name), at the same asking why I could not receive a refund.

Two days passed - no reply and no upgrade to Gold at the Certain PTR. I wrote another email inquiring if again my email had not been received and demanding a refund due to non-fulfillment of my order for 10 days now.

Here is the reply I received.

QUOTE
I HAVE A LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
im not some bum like you that clicks links for a living
if you dont want your gold memebrship FINE!
but there are no refunds
UNQUOTE

I wrote back a polite email stating that this unprofessional attitude is unacceptable and reminding this PTR admin that my order remained unfulfilled and since a refund is refused such behaviour can be determined as fraud or scam. I also indicated that I would not continue to correspond on this but will reserve the right to take any further steps as deemed appropriate.

I did receive a reply immediately this time, indicating that since I had stated in my previous email that I wanted a refund and nothing else, my account has not, and will not be upgraded until I write another email stating that I want to upgrade.

I was also advised that

QUOTE
please do tell other webmaster and post all over forum and in chats, and buy paid emails saying i am a scam and a fraud to be honest i dont give a *(*&(*
UNQUOTE


I am interested to know if you had similar experiences in general (both with non-fulfilment of orders and/or rude admins and owners) if yes, how can this issue can encountered. I believe that such PTR owners who do not have a minimal sense of professionalism, are really ruining the reputation of the PTR industry and programs members (and owners!).

BTW I have all emails on file, including my own emails which I am willing to post here, so that it will be obvious that none of my emails was insulting (only demanding to receive what I had paid for).

********************************************************************************
***
This is also the place to thank all those PTR's that have fulfilled my order for Gold Membership, as well as paid me, within 3 days at less - Here they are: ********************************************************************************
****

Any input, advice, or just your opinions are very welcome

First........I would POST who that was.....and also If you paid by paypal...file a complaint with them

You got that right! It just totally tees me off when I read crap members have to go through.

I have a member base of over 3000 members, and I always try to treat my members with the respect they deserve. Sure I get some emails that make me scream! But my replies to them are always professional. Getting nasty only makes matters worse.

And webmasters who do not fulfill orders for golds or ads should be put out of business. PERIOD. It's theft.

I'm having extreme family problems at the moment, with my daughter and 2 grandsons in the hospital. I've notified my memberbase that emails and redemptions may be slower than usual. But I still manage to treat them professionally and answer emails within 48 hrs.

It just depends on the honesty and dedication a webmaster has, or if they are just out to fulfill their own needs.

Ok off the soap box....next?

Beckie

Agreed!

Please post the program.. this is way wrong.

I would really like to know which program.

Best to post it so tha we all know who not to deal with.

Thank you for your interest . The program is Another PTR If you're not a member yet - stay away !

If you've been scammed on the Internet, your first stop should
be the Internet Fraud Complaint Center (IFCC):

==> http://www1.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp

The IFCC is a partnership between the FBI and the National
White Collar Crime Center. You can file a complaint and view
fraud tips and warnings.

Here are a few more url's which might be of assistance to you as well.
http://www.consumer.gov/sentinel/trends.htm

http://www.naag.org/ag/full_ag_table.php Attorney Generals by State

Another PTR? who is that?

Hi Jazmyni - thanks for the tip - I paid with E-gold and I'm not sure they accept customer complaints, will check.

I'm sure that this money is gone though. I will not get it back.

The best I can do is to make others aware of this site, and to discuss ideas what can be done to ensure that PTR owners will realize that such behavior is not serving neither members nor themselves.

I think that it would maybe a good idea have some kind of organization formed by the PTR owners that would set out some guidelines of PTR professional standards, and that other all PTR owners could apply to be members of. What do you think?

kiwinz eh. Tell me why I'm not surprised!!!!

Remind me not to join this one!

Kiwinz has been banned from this forum, and so has all his friends (or should I say, "cronies"?).
This is incredibly rude and unprofessional behavior.
I believe most of us site owners bend over backwards to make the "customer" happy.
Or, at least, many of us do.....

I would never do anything like that to my members. I try and get everything set up for them within 24 hours, at the latest.

I am sorry you had such a bad experience. Not everyone is like that, but the few that are really make it bad for the rest of us who care about our sites and what we do for our members.

I also sent money for an ad and have not got a reply to any of my emails nor have the ads been mailed

If you don't know this program - good for you!

I am so sorry this happened to you, So many of the Webmasters and the Webmistresses are Professional, Curtious people, and also clickers just like us making a living out here. I noticed within this thread a few of them responding to you. (I belong to all of them). If you feel that this warrants this you can also post this PTR on the Boycott List.

It is bad also that I am a member of this program, I personally have not had to deal with the Webmaster on any issues. I can also say that when I leave this forum I will be canceling my membership there as I will not belong to a PTR program run with such rude behavior, and unprofessionalism.

I hope all works out for you.

Tigress

He's just sent an email out asking his members to come here and say what they think about another-ptr.

Well hello another-ptr members, enjoy the reading and hopefully you will see what kind of person you are supporting and cancel your account at another-ptr.

Here's another forum where you can see exactly what kind of webmaster of which you are a member of his program.
http://www.getpaidfyi.com/showthread.php?threadid=1625

kiwinz is the owner of the program you are a member of.

Don't give him anything else, save yourself trouble and leave his program you'll probably never get paid anyway.

Hi birdcrazymail,

thank you for your reply. Yes I agree with you, most owners are helpful and professional. BTW I am also a member of your program.

What can we do to get these unprofessional ones off the market? Any ideas?

This is what I got when I canceled my membership, I copied it for you all.
You are the weakest link, GOODBYE!. Well if anyone has seen this show, now the rude behavior may be explained

Tigress

Boy he is bad, What actual other programs does this guy run??? Does anyone know???

Tigress

Hello Everyone
If the program your talking about is another PTR it came out under another when it first started
But thats besides the point
Yes crooked webmasters do hurt the business I've been doing this for over 5 years now so I've seen them come and go

I got a little chore for anybody who wants to do it the program in mention look closely at the webmasters name and do some investigating you'll be really surprised how many sites he has

But 1 good point the newer ones that have been poping up have some really GREAT webmasters There friendly and they do pay and try there hardest to get your redemptions done In fact even one posted here
freeandeasy take a bow one of the great webmasters

And legally there isn't a whole lot you can do except don't support them
theres been webmasters that are tied up in court right now for this very thing and the letter that was sent to the members from the lawyers read as this
If the class action suit is won you will receive an equal share but let me see that was 4 years ago
So good luck everyone
and be careful out there sign up for some there not all cheats

I think that's the only one that he runs, it was going by another name not long ago somewhere around is a post he made by creating another ident on here to post about Jay stealing his domain name for his site, forcing him to move hostsites and rename to Another-ptr.com

*goes hunting*

Ahh, here it is. golden-emails.com is what he used to be called before he shifted hosts and such.

I would like to add that it also took a month for me to just get my gold membership with him when he was doing it for $5 for lifetime.


PS: Name on the email address when he replied back to me then was 'Stinger wEB sERVICES'

I have also encountered the owner of that
program, who is very unpleasant, immature,
and unprofessional. I deleted his account
after he carried out a series of hostile
actions against the SPE web site over
a short period of time. He tries to emulate
his (only?) friend who owns several other
paid-to-read programs and search
engines, even using some of the same
sentences as him.

soooo sorry naama...but want to thank you for the ehads up...HAD been thinking about joining....and btw who is kiwinz and why is he banned? have seen the name mentioned here and there?

thanks in advance!

I just wanted to say I dont have any problems with this site. Instead of complaining, all you have to do is just cancel your account. You are the one who decides which ones to belong to. And of course you'll find bad ones, but I dont think Another-ptr is.

I am sorry, I do not feel that Naama is complaining, I think she is trying to speak out for her rights. Put yourself in her shoes. You pay for a gold membership and it never gets processed. Are you going to quit the program as you so easily put it, or would you as well be demanding your money back or at least ask for responses in a professional manner, not a childish one. I too had no problems with the program prior to my quiting right after my first post. Stop and ask yourself, would you want this to happen to you, it could you know. She is only making people aware of just that fact. The rest of the threads in here were just giving more information about this particular webmaster, and warning us to be aware. We are all adults and can choose what and how we represent ourselves. To me this particular webmaster represented himself and his site in a very crude and disrespectal way.

Tigress

I'm shocked to find out this after receiving an emails from another PTR to redirect me to this post!

After reading all, I login to my account there and guess what I found out?

POINTS EARNING STATS

You have directly earned 0 Points
You have earned from your Downline 0 Points
Your account balance after all transactions 0


I think I have more than 40 points at my account, I did not make a record since 6th May. As at 6th May I have at least 25 pts.

Sigh, I'm not sure if the webmaster direct us to this post and then delete all the points we earned?

The bad thing is I was signing up this program under somebody at the referral exchange, should I or should I quit the program?


Very bad experience!

Totally agree

there is no point in making negative remarks such as that That is horrible no one should be treated that way for any reason...

That proves not everyone has good pr skills...

I have not had any problems from this site at all. I also checked my stats and found them zero however just a few minutes later I recieved an email along with everyone else stating that it was a server problem. I am going to hang tight and see what happens. I feel sorry for the person that did not get what they paid for. I know everyone has a bad day now and again but they need to keep it professional and not take it out on the member. Please don't misunderstand I am not making excuses for the webmaster there are none. He is now saying he is thinking about selling the website to someone who will take care of the members and not kill it. I have no idea what the history is behind all this drama but I wish it would get solved so we can all get on with our clicking.

[QUOTE]POINTS EARNING STATS

You have directly earned 0 Points
You have earned from your Downline 0 Points
Your account balance after all transactions 0


Yup thats what I just got also. I am also the weakest link.
Kim

Personally, I like this site a lot better than some others that I belong to. I hope you keep it. You are doing a great job, in my opinion.

I think he got hacked, this just in:

Sorry you had to go through that!... I just replyed to a post from a friend of Kwanzi , who was complaining that it was the forums fault he shut down....Ugh the guy blames everyone but himself...

[quote=KimH,May 16 2003, 11:57 AM][QUOTE]POINTS EARNING STATS

You have directly earned 0 Points
You have earned from your Downline 0 Points
Your account balance after all transactions 0


Yup thats what I just got also. I am also the weakest link.
Kim[/quote]
Mines the same, but it isnt the link that is doing it. I didnt click the link to come here.

Good thing is I still have emails for there to click, hope the dbase is one that is made each night.

ROFL, he can't even be original. Jay sent that to members months ago when they were unsubbing for disagreeing with him.

<erase>

You have directly earned $0.0000
You have earned from your Downline $0.0000
Your account balance after all transactions $0.0000


i have not dealt with this person but from reading about him here, it's plain to me that he is not a very good WM and his attitude and my temoer won't mix very well. Going unsubscribe and see if I am the " weakest link" also

He is the one that send an email leading to this forum wanting to hear his members views, I think he wants out and wants to put the blame on others when he shuts down. Says he will pay everyone if he sells, pay us what? We all have nothing!!! Is it really a script error. And why in the world would he send us to this thread? I don't get it!

Yes, I am the weakes link also, what a jerk!

You are the weakest link, GOODBYE!.

Stress, help from family and friends, lawyer??????

Is it just me or did I miss something at some point when they finally came back???

Has he ever said what the problem was?? Stress from what? Starting a PTR site with nothing to back self up to begin with? As goes for any webmaster, or any BUSINESS owner... you never go into 'business' without being sure you are going to be able to take care of your 'customers' or pay EMPLOYEES! Right?!
Of course there is never a guanatee with ANY business.. just ask me and my hubby! UGH Luckily we do not do this.. hehe

As for any and all of you webmasters of these PTR sites.. you all are alot braver than I am!!! I would have lost my mind after about oh say.. the 3rd email. lmao

Good luck to all and think deeply, choose wisely!

I think Another-ptr is no worse or better than any of the other programs I have joined. My only complaint is that I could not find out how many points it takes to earn a penny.

Just wanted to comment here. I have never had a problem with Another-PTR or the webmaster. I have been with his program from the beginning through all the ups and downs.

He was hosted with Jay and there was ALOT of chaos and he had to go get a new domain for his site.

He is hosted with Lan of LuckyEarners(paidrealm, mailingheaven et) and she got hacked and has problems and so did Kiwi's site since he is hosted with her.

He kept his members informed through all this the best he could.

Now he can't respond here so thsi is going to be one sided pretty much. If you would like I will open a thread on my forum where everyone can post along with the webmaster. Rules will apply to everyone, I will not tolerate rude behavior, or anything else.

Thought I would give everyone the opportunity to settle this and give the webmaster a chance to respond.

Thanks
Amy

When you mention this, would you care to advise if you ever
a) placed an order of any kind
requested pay-out
at this site and could you please confirm that indeed you did and
did not encounter any problem.




Unlike this KiwiNZ (.. I finally got the nickname ), Lan PaidRealm/LuckyEarners/MailinHeaven is one of the most professional and polite program owners I know.

Too bad if he can't respond ... I am really not an insider of the PTR industry and have no knowledge who is behind each and every program so when I posted here, I had no idea who this program owner was or that he was banned and could not come here to post. YOu will notice even that in my first post I did not mention the program name, as I was awaiting feedback from PTR members and owners. It was only after I was assured by both members and owners that such behaviour should not be tolerated, and forum members wanted to know who was involved, that I posted the name.




As you can read in my first post, this webmaster, instead of indeed trying to settle the matter, responded to me that

QUOTE
I HAVE A LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
im not some bum like you that clicks links for a living
if you dont want your gold memebrship FINE!
but there are no refundsUNQUOTE

and

QUOTE
please do tell other webmaster and post all over forum and in chats, and buy paid emails saying i am a scam and a fraud to be honest i dont give a *(*&(*
UNQUOTE

Had he shown willingness to settle this issue, this whole thread would not be here in the first place. Now he already send out an email announcing that maybe he wants to close the site because members do not happy. He should maybe try to put himself in the member's place would he be happy to be treated like that if he paid for Gold Membership at a program.

He has certainly only himelf to hold accountant for either the fortune or misfortune of his site.

Look I am not taking sides, just posted what I knew and have experienced.

Yes I have bought advertising and it went out right away with no problems. No I have not cashed out.

I have had a few questions on different occasions and received a prompt reply. But I will say it ws not at a time when the site was changing servers or anything.

I can only comment on what I know or have experienced.

I offered my forum for a way for ALL sides to be able to comment. If no one wants that, I don't care. Was just offering to help out here.

post removed by SPE

I beg your pardon? nothing new for ME? Care to explain yourself? I take offense to you making the statemen that I take the side of liars.

I simply stated what I experienced.

post removed by SPE

SPE, all Amy did was offer a place for the WM to post as well.......are you saying that is not a fair thing to do?

The only "side" she is taking is the side of fairness to all.


When did this become a bad thing?

What two website owners are you referring to as this thread was about Another-PTR....

I act unquestioningly? lol I stated my EXPERIENCE.

There have been many programs who had people with varying experiences. You are gonna make the statement the "it's nothing new that I side with liars" because I stated what my EXPERIENCE with this one was?

Maybe SPE would like to provide some links right here where I take the side of liars. Since he is implying this is common place for me.

Seems to me SPE is not interested in the "facts" of this one thread - they would just like to share their emotions about the past

I don't even know what he is referring to. Would love to see him cough up proof that I side with liars because I surely don't. I am not taking sides here either just expressed my experience and offered some help.