Last time I'm going to ask.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!!

Separate search links and LABEL them!! PLEASE!!!

With every program out there sending 10 to 15 or more links in one email, it's getting harder and harder to do the PAID ADVERTISING and the searches! I'm SORRY BUT...these search engines take frikkin WAY too long even on DSL!

PLEASE GIVE US A CHOICE to click or not click them! I really, really am pleading here! I'm trying very hard to give everyone a valid search...when I have the time, and I won't click out of one if it's not timed out of fairness...but dang it...PLEASE!!! Some of you guys are killin' us here!

DITTO, DITTO, DITTO

you're exactly right... i totally agree!!!

can't disagree

Yeh, what she said. I hate feeling like a cheat when I hit a search link and I know there is no way I can make a valid search.

This is true... there are soo many of them now saying if you click don't search we know blah blah well if it were labeled I wouldn't click so they wouldn't have to worry abt me draggin it down!

I do way too much already and yes I know searches are what pulls in the money but although I do click some of the time I don't all of the time. Without them being labeled I click them and then realize that its a search it's like I was "tricked" into clicking.

I feel the same, Debra. There are webbies here that I would give all I could for, and try. But sometimes, I feel they rely way too heavily on these searches, although I understand the reasoning. But in order for anyone to get really good results from the searches, I truly believe we shouldn't be "waylaid" into them.

I'm more than happy to comply with the search rules, but I sure don't like being roped into them not knowing. It takes too much time, and I think too many people are pushing these searches to the limit here. Considering both webbies and members are pushing their own searches. Like I said, I don't mind the CHOICE, but I DO mind not knowing.

agree 100% - with everyone sending search links now it's impossible to do them all and have them valid, even if a person wanted to. In most programs I have been avoiding anything less than half a cent for a long time but it still ticks me off when I feel tricked into wasting a search on a cheap link since it could possibly mean an advertiser who was decent enough to send out a higher paying link may not get the result they should from my search.

It is sad really, that so many programs rely on members doing searches.
So many of our clicks don't even count by the end of the day anyway.

If a program is not pulling in enough advertising, (I am going to be hated for this) then maybe it shouldn't survive.

If people are not advertising with a program, there is probably a reason for that.
Remember the natural selection process.
If we stop this searching madness, we just might end up with some really great programs....with plenty of good advertising spread out amongst the ones that are meant to survive.

That would mean more money for all of us in the long run.
More dollars GOING IN to the good solid programs, means more dollars and faster, higher payouts COMING OUT to us.

It just doesn't make sense to search our brains out to keep some of these programs alive that are hanging by a thread.
Of course a few serches here and there are ok, but we are being FLOODED with searches daily.

(I don't need nasty remarks made to me about this. I am simply offering an opinion from my point of view)
Thank you And everyone have a nice day

EK, you're on the right track here. You shouldn't be flamed for speaking out. I've been saying this one for so long now. Searches are fine, but shouldn't be the life's blood of a program.

i agree with all of you. searching all day is not an easy job. i, personally, do not search for points or anything less than $0.005.

but i also get angry at those unlabled searches with no timer. i can't imagine doing that to members. its a blatant trick meant to deceive. grrrrrrrrrrrr.

I keep my searches in the ptc section.
This is the best way I know to not annoy my members with them.
If they want to do the searches, they can login and do them.
It's also less work for me; I just set up the searches, and set them to let the members search every 24 hours.
I don't have to do new paid email search links every day and then mail them out.
Voila! No annoyed members.
Everyone should do it this way.

Thankyou!! See, it is good to speak out!!
I agree with freeandeasy.

Hello, everyone, I own a PTRE, and I just want to say that I do understand about the labeling of the searches... I try to label them If I forget or whatever to label them I won't punis for my mistake, I can't speak for others but I do try and Cheryl can tell you,lol... it atleast I hope that she can and will...lol. Good luck everyone!

Let's face it....if there are 500 advertising agencies in a 10 square block area in a city, then some of them CANNOT and WILL NOT and SHOULD NOT SURVIVE!

Well I never have complained about members not doing searches, and I won't because my searchlink always 1 cent is a bonus for my members if they search or not search I am not depending on them

And I hate to see sites bashing there members because they do not search, while the problem is that most of the times searchengines does not load properly or if you have clicked allready at another program, so it is just morbide that programs rely on searches, they should all dissappear so that the good ones will say alive and send searchlinks as a bonus not as a demand

Well this was my 2 cents

I do agree with alot of whats being said, but if a program wants to survive the webmaster/owner has to cut cost and if they can use a search link to help with this, I believe its ok, but they should mark the links for the members that doesn't want to search... but for a member to intentionally click a search link knowing that it is a search link only to get the money then its cheating like going on a job and knowing what the job demands of the worker yet the worker just milks the comapny of the money but not getting the job done. If this makes any sense.... now if the link isn't marked the member has no idea that this is a search link then I can't see justifing punishment when that is the wm fault for not ID-ing the search link..... many programs fail because of cheating and different things, but if the wm knows just alittle scripting just enough to cut alittle there, or has friends that can program then it does make it easier for the members that are honest. But a wm has to look to the future of whats going on, not just to the present, then prepare for the worst as well as the great... if these makes sense... and taking care of the members will always out wiegh the leaving it to their own devices....
just my 2 pennies worth

**Kisses to Bennie**

{{{{{{{{{{Ms.Freeeeeeeeeeeeee}}}}}}}}}}

Hence, y'all being two of my most fav webbies out there

It's not that there are searches, it's that they get thrown into the mix in some emails, and it's just so frustrating

Many webbies do try hard to show them as searches, but some throw in cheap links, non-timed links, and searches all in a row (sometimes without a revisit link...which I think should be there in case of a bad search or want to go back to site).

At any rate, thanks to all the webmasters who try to incorporate their members ideas and thoughts. That's a very good sign

It would also be nice if the searchlinks they send out where marked somehow so you could see if your country is allowed to search.

I almost feel bad when I click a link and then it says "Your country is blocked"

I agree with you Trayse. I hate unlabeled searches with no timers.
As someone posted, it should also be our choice as to whether we want to do the search or not.

exactly! Being a webmaster.... I try and always label as I have said, but sometimes I do get carried away... but if its my fault then 99.99% I give the members the credit anyways...lol...

I have been struggling with the "Searching Issue" myself. I USUALLY WILL NOTdo searches for the following reasons:

1. I don't think it is fair to the advertiser. They are paying PER CLICK for an HONEST CLICK from someone that is really interested in their ad. And if they are the top advertiser the are the ones usually getting clicked and thus having to pay.

2. I myself will not advertise in a Pay Per Click Search Engine for the above reason. I don't want to have to pay just because someone clicked on my link to get credit for "searching". I want real interested people.

3. It does take too long to do a "valid search"

4. I will do a search on my own when I NEED to search for something. I don't need the 1/10 of a cent that bad!

As a matter of fact I quit a program tonight because their emails were always 2 searches for money and the ad was for points!

So any Webmasters reading this now know why their click rates on searches aren't as high as they hope - because I am sure there are more people like me that don't want to click on a search "unfairly".

Am I wrong to feel this way? Do any others feel the way I do?

3. It does take too long to do a "valid search"

Exactly!!! I'm not going to spend 15 minutes on one search. What's up with that?

Man I am with you there.........

Thank you all for speaking up about your feelings on searches. When I wrote this, it had been a particularly stressful day, and my emails had been stacking up. And of course, the web was running slow, AOL was doing it's own thing, and low and behold, here comes a whole load of emails...80% of the links were not labeled or had a revisit link to identify what it was. AND I was pretty much close to tears of frustration. The search engines I kept hitting weren't working. The pages were coming up server error, broken, etc.

And because I actually really do love both the webmaster and her program, I was trying desperately hard to do right by her. And getting nowhere fast! Then two more programs came right behind, AGAIN with a whole load of searches, and by that time, I WAS in tears. (Not a crybaby, just a bad day lol).

It's such a small thing to ask, and I can't see it as being a hard thing to implement. Either separate or label. Is that really all that difficult to do?

I agree, I will do them sometimes but I don't like to be tricked into doing the search.

I'm a webmaster and I agree. I not only label the searches I list what search engine. No surprises. I don't like them myself, so why do that to my members ya know?

well lets face it all, there are too many programs out there and some of them are offering prices for advertising that is real nuts, this isn't good for the industry. My god, that is making the industry worse. And the program itself would not survive

Well I would praise the day that there will be a ban on new programs, or that a program has to be verified before launch or whatever, and also that their advertising prices are not too low etc etc

In the end the ones who deliver quality traffic for advertisers and who have a good reputation will stay alive and also who are loyal with their members, well that is my opinion

Bennie

I actually prefer the programs that send all of the searches in a separate email. Usually the one they throw in at the end of each email really doesn't bother me, because those have been clearly marked. When WM send them all in one mailing, I can just store it in my "do when I can't sleep" folder, and do them at my convenience. (not to mention, searching usually bores the stuffing out of me, so it helps me sleep..lol). I'd rather have it that way then have a few searches mixed in a regular mailing and then have to save a bunch of mail just in case I get the time to do the searches.

Glad I read this thread.......

I am far from perfect but I do try to do things to make life easier for my members cause I , too, and a member in a lot of programs and try to steer clear of what "irks" me but I am sure I don't always do that. But I do try :-) and I don't "live off" searches but I do offer them as an option if someones needs to search for something and to get a little something in return in thier account. But if I depended on searches my programs would have died a long time ago cause I don't make squat off searches.....I actually lose some...LOL! But I know when I send out those links I know what I am getting into. I do add a little clause to discourage clicking just to click but let's face it....ain't happening! So to depend on searches to keep your program alive is not a good thing and it is worse to "bully" your members into doing searches and/or flat out b!tching at then constantly about the click rates. I think that just makes things worse cause then members get POed and will click the links just to click! Can't blame ya there! I am a rebel by nature too........

Anyway, thank you all for speaking out. I am going to do my best to incorperate these ideas into my programs........cause when my members are happy.......I'm happy

Thanks AK and all you other webmasters out there who DO listen to your members. Class acts who've spoken here in this thread. I commend each of you.

If we can bring this to the others out there, with this one thing, who knows what we can do together to make the PTR/PTC industry bigger, better, and more responsive, more profitable. Working together DOES make a difference.

I went against my word here, and AM saying one more thing. I'm sorry, but I thought this WAS a good thread, and a lot of good webmasters here backed up what I was trying to put across.

I'm giving formal notice, from now until after I get back from Texas (my daughter's graduating from high school...cum laude!! lol) (sorry had to crow a second), IF I click a NONLABELED link, and regardless of whether or not it's timed, I'm clicking out. I don't have the time nor the inclination anymore to be waylaid into yet one more search that I haven't chosen to do. Wanna delete me from your database, please feel free. I'm not getting sucked into this anymore. If you make those links pay more than 10 cents a shot, I'll gladly sit here all day and give the best da*n valid searches you've ever had. Until then, sorry, not interested, not inclined, not motivated.

When I get back, maybe I might do them. I'll think about it.



And to those webmasters who label...THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!

~~Susy

I do not like searches, labeled or not. But I understand why they are there, and try to do them if I have the time.

When I started my own program, I made sure to tell my members that searches would be labeled. And, they are. I include one search in every email, and a link to my search page. But I never force my members to do them.

I send a Search Digest out to those who checked off Search as one of their interests. I advised all of them that by clicking Search as an interest, it meant they liked searches. I told them is they didn't want to search, then don't.

I am relying on the searches right now for revenue because my site started a week ago today. No major advertising purchases have been made. And, I think my prices are pretty fair.

I based my GPTR practices off of sites I liked, and made sure I was not like the sites I have cancelled.

Well, that's my comment, and I'm sitcking to it!!

oh goodness, just saw hyper's post and she is right!!! she does always clearly label search emails !
and way to go, birdcrazymail, i may just join your site after reading this!!!

LOL!!! Bird Please don't get me wrong, I totally understand the usage of searches, and given in the correct form, they're fine. It's just the PLETHORA of sites sending out so many searches, either labeled or not...well it's killing things more than making money.

With the time outs, exceeded clicks, length of time spent, etc., it's starting to wear members out. And becoming an annoyance and nuisance to many. I gladly do them for some, but for others who overdo, I have no time to be concerned if I'm daily yelled at for not doing the searches. Normally, when I see that the website is failing...and doing a fair amount of yelling at me for NOT doing the searches, I unsub. This tells me that the webmaster cannot find outside advertisers by getting off their duffs and looking, or finding other ways. I don't know how many times I've seen posts from webmasters and members alike who keep saying if you're "solely" relying on searches and members advertising, you're going to fail. And usually do.

Remember the upmost thing here, members are not necessarily advertisers, most joined to make a few cents here and there, not to PAY. That is the basic premise of advertising, showing people what's out there and hopefully getting some business. The paid to read industry ... the intent was I'll run your spot for X amount of dollars and send X amount of people your way. Now it's members buy ads to send members to other paid to read sites that they've already seen more times than our own toes Gets old, ya know? (And this is sort of getting off thread here, but it's part of basic complaint.)

My main point was please label, to give us a CHOICE. It's time consuming to go back and forth in the email body, it's frustrating to get invalid searches which are not always our fault, but ultimately a webmaster will accuse us of incorrect usage. Those are the basics of what I felt.

But good luck with your program

~~Susy

Well, ain't this special? Going through my mail and came across an email saying that inactives were being deleted and if you wanted to remain a member with this program, you were to click the following link. Just so happens that the link turned out to be an unmarked and untimed search so once I clicked, I felt I HAD to search or take the chance of being deleted. Ordinarily I wouldn't give a crap, but I'm just a little over a buck from payout, and after all of the clickin I want to get paid...lol

Cashforaction just said they had important news... in order to maintain their pay rate on the searches they send everyday (and the only other ads are from auctions), we now should click TWO results for each search!

Welp, in my opinion, u shouldn't have to feel like u "have to" do the searches, sites like cashforaction the majority of the emails that I recieve from them are searches so i know before hand that it is most likely a search one, but in my opinion if I don;'t label the search links then how can my members be held responsible if they unknowing click the link if they don't like to search? I will not hold someone responsible if they don't know! In all fairness noone can, but now if they are labeled and they still choose to click and no make a search then yes they are responsible to make a search....

Ok, that just made me steam just a tad bit.

Since WHEN did we join PTR's to SEARCH??????? Period. End of story.

You know what, that's just plain outrageous no matter HOW the heck you look at it. I REFUSE to be held hostage on something like that, and if I belonged to that site, I'd be writing to the search engine people on that one. Sorry, but the webbies that are holding my account hostage by me not clicking on search links or giving them more than one can BITE MY LILY WHITE BUNS.

I'll stick with the ones who send labeled searches and don't try to sneak them in. Thank you very much!!!

I ask myself with this searches, who is playing fair.
First, a search can take a long time, say more than a minute no exeption. When i am paid 0,1 cent or 1 point (whatever that value), I feel cheated out of my time. For some searches it is not even clear if you get paid, or it will go to random payouts.
Secondly, I am a member of more than one ptr (r for seaRch?) so I get quite a lot of searches offered from the same engine, think they will not count anyway.
Third, when I do the search, I do not really look at the result (who is). Now I think this is crucial. The advertizer is paying good money for valid searches, but is it valid when I search for anything easy to type? It is like ptr: I should not only click , I have to look at the ad, is it?
So I think when I do a "valid" search, I cheat on the advertizer, and that is no good too.

hehehehe, now that is a good one... "Lilly White Buns" I love it...lmao.

gonna add my 2 cents here

I have been known to advertise a search link or 2 (no, I don't own a program). When I run an ad for a search link, I do it with the expectation of a 10% or less return. For example, if my ad gets 1000 clicks, I only expect to receive 100 searches(or less), and also expect several invalids. Advertisers really shouldn't expect much more with a search link. I also see a lot of search links being run by advertisers and webmasters alike that DO NOT allow incentives in any way. These people are in jeopardy of losing their accounts. When I click an unmarked link and it is a search, I will search only if I know I an produce a good result. Cheating--I don't think so, because the link is UNMARKED. If the link is marked as a search, I will click only if I have the time and know I can do a good search.

And these programs that threaten your accounts if you don't search--TURN THEM IN TO THE SEARCH ENGINES. You CANNOT make somebody do a search for you in 99.99% of the search engines out there. If a program is so desperate for money, get over to E-Bay and run some ad packages--I may buy some ..........have just discovered that you can get some really great deals there

I must agree with you here, Billy. People who advertise upon search engines, especially the ones which require them to pay, are looking for valid customers, just like everyone else. When a GPTR site abuses that advertiser's right, by admonishing people who choose not to search, or incenticizing their searchs in any way, whether it be as simple as just one point offered, are guilty of that which they do accuse of us, at times, clicking upon a link, simply for the sake of clicking.

There are plenty of ways to gain income, other than just the use of search engines, for a site. It's time these wm start putting upon their heads a thinking cap, instead of just following the path of others. It is quite boring, especially since many of the search engines being sent, be one and the same.

Now click upon every link I could do, but valid my search might not very well be for an ip address consisting of one. Have I satistfied my requirement to search for you? Yes, but generate income I have not with the possible exception of those few, who be first in line.

If I want to be paid for action or paid for search, I will sign up at sites which clearly offer those things.

If a WM wants to put a search in their email, fine.
If it is labeled, and I feel like doing the search (or action) I will do it.

If it is NOT labeled, I wait for the timer and collect my cash.
If it is NOT labeled and there is NO timer, I close the page without doing the search and collect my cash.

Bottom line: If a WM misleads me.........the WM pays for it.

If they would just get that lil ticky box in the interests and go by it .............
I always look to see if search is an option and make sure that it's not ticked.

I don't like to search much, I search for certain programs and certain engines 90% of the time.

If it's an unmarked link I won't search, most times if I do it will be invalid. So there is no point. If it is a new or different engine, I will give it a go, if the link is labeled as a search link.

I don't understand why they all add search links, they know we do lots of programs, they know lots of programs send searches, they know we could turn up with invalids.........then they call us cheats

I don't click on clearly labled search links or ptc's because I will not search and if I do it's rare, but i had an 'opening' for that engine.

People are getting tired of searches......it's time for something new.

MY TURN -

I more than agree! Searches are a waste of time and effort, and 99% of the ones I do get invalidated for one reason or another. My favorite reason that a search is invalid, is the "Search IP is not the same as Click IP" - which, thank you, turns up on TOO many search engines! Would someone PLEASE tell me how I changed computers in mid-search?

Also, I HATE being told to search for ANYTHING LESS than 1/2 cent!

There are too many programs out there NOW which use search engines as a way to send any links - some of them are quite notorious in the PTR industry and are listed at GPTBoycott (you know of whom I speak!)

I do feel, too, that WM's are accountable to their members - it's a two-way street. Yes, as members we are expected to click links and read the ads, however, the webmaster's are equally responsible to US to provide quality and valid advertising!

This is supposed to be the PAID-TO-READ industry, NOT the PAID-TO-SEARCH industry! It's about time that webmaster's keep this in mind!

Finally, it is equally wrong for webmasters to constantly send members out to their ECF pages, especially when it happens on EVERY link. If they wish to link their ECF page to ONE link per letter, FINE, but NOT EVERY SINGLE DA*N ONE!

It seems to be difficult to make some money in ptr. But wm are inventive.

Next step could be?

From webmaster
To member
re: account closure
"we did sent you 10 paid mails. You opened all 10. In each of these mails you were invited to join another ptr. However from our records we find you did not sign up for any of them. Therefore we have to close your account for cheating".

come on
sent me the search link, I will click on it and I will decide if I want to search, or not. Like any other offer I get as a paid link. That not ok, then delete my account and be happy with your customer care.