Okay, this will get me hated, but there are webmasters out there who take sneaky advantage of their members.

One specific case in point - One webmaster has rigged their Paid-to-Click page so that each time you click one of the links you are sent to their EXIT CASH FLOW page. This would be reasonable if it were linked to their main site - one occurrence per visit is NOT unreasonable, but 22 visits in one day is not only cheating ECF, but is robbing the members of the time it takes them to wade through all the page repetitions. 22 links with 30 second timers should only require about 30 minutes to complete, but with this stunt, it took over an hour to complete the page.

Another stunt is the reputable webmaster who cannot be bothered to inform the members of planned site closures (repeat, PLANNED), or seeing to it that the membership is informed of lengthy downtimes - whether due to illness, system crashes, or pure boredom!

Of course, the list of stunts goes on and on, but it seems to me that perhaps what this (and other) forum needs is an inversion of the Company Support file - perhaps a Company Complaint file? This list would, of course, have to provide space for companies that are not actually members of this forum, so that members and non-members alike could investigate the problems which are experienced by any site. Of course, this is an ideal that won't be met, but perhaps something similar to this could be instituted sometime.

Don't worry, that WM will be caught by ECF. They review accounts and are starting to crack down on ECF members who are WMs.
ECF don't like WMs (of GPTR's or Traffic Exchanges) racking up tons of credits just because they own a site.

ECF considers this "garbage traffic".

This WM is only hurting him/herself.

I would like to know how you can forewarn members or anyone for that matter of system crashes and Illnesses??????


Don't get me wrong Im not defending anyone here. But this statment is a little extreme.

i totally agree!! how can you know in advance that you're going to be ill or your system is going to die ??? it's not like you've planned this in advance...

although i had a friend once who called her boss and told him she was sick, she had an eye problem, and when he asked what was wrong, she said "i just don't see myself coming in to work today"

Think he was stressing the PLANNED part more........but if you are ill, you can send out a quick message, unless it is a very severe illness. Some have partners too that could send a message of downtime, out of town........
Wuala always sends emails saying they'll be gone.

And many WM's had sent emails saying there was a crash and they are workin on it, so it IS possible for them to send a quick email, sometimes they can't, but many have.

I am yet to come across a webmaster who PLANS system crashes.

Both webmasters and members suffer as a result of system crashes due to down times which can be lengthy at times.

Just a little note. It only works if the person going to it has a COMPLETELY new IP. Not possible if you are on cable or ADSL, but on dialup it is a different story.

So really they arent cheating ECF since it only logs the IP once each 24 hours, any time after the hits are pointless.

But if it is annoying you, then dont click the link on the Paid to Click page, or if the links is hidden and continously hidden under different links, report them to ECF

They sometimes get another WM to put the word out, usually in an email and on here.

It's not just ECF that some of the wm place upon their sites. Popups, the same ones, displaying over and over with each page. Only uniques are counted.

The other thing that annoys me is when a wm changes the payout terms but fails to notify the membership base. One such program raised their minimum payout rate from $15.00 to $45.00. Not a single word went out. I discovered it quite by accident when attempt to update my own site with % referral rates and payout terms I was doing. Could not find anything in the TOS. Wrote to the WM, no reply. Finally posted a message on his forum, and obtained an answer.

There it was, listed on the help page, and to my surprise what once was $15.00 now was $45.00. I checked my signup in the downline builder to make sure that it wasn't just me who mis-read what I thought I originally saw when sign up I did choose to do. Now that was a dirty trick what this wm did to a membership base most likely more unsuspecting than not of this change.

Abuses by Webmasters occur when you resign yourself from their database twice and they still send you emails!

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Evelyn... I've had it with your FILLMYACCOUNT website.

What part of I quit, don't you seem to understand. You email will now be blocked! I done travelling to your site to delete myself, simply to find you've placed me back in there with a database restore!!!

Forward Spam emails to

support@lucidityhosting.com

I don't believe this.... I just checked my email same thing.. And I wasn't going to say anything cause when I unsubbed the beginning of april and the end of april I started getting emails again I thought well if she had database problems I understand and so I unsubscribed again... and after reading this I went and checked my email and here I got another one UGH!!! I'm forwarding it right now...

how abt WMs that suddenly stop operating their site - like www.Get-Rich-With-Us.com, www.Tiger-click.com?

Is there a thread within GPF that identifies programme closures / disappearances ?

There should be....

Oh !! Oh !! Oh !!

Can I be the mod ????? LOLOL

Sings along to Queen .................. "Another one bites the dust"

Look, this really breaks my heart to say this, but this is abuse. I didn't sign up to hear personal WM hardluck stories. I have nothing personal against her, but this is the worst kind of solicitation and system abuse, I have ever seen. You do not use a business to beg for money. That is wrong. Plain wrong. I don't know what to make of any of this; and I'm not trying to make light of her brother's condition or call her dishonest. All I'm saying, is if this is the level of professionalism I can expect from a GPTR, then I'm not going to be READING the mails, just clicking links. No one is paying me to make me feel bad for someone else.

at the risk of causing trouble for the site i assist with ... i fully agree with all of the above statements. any so-called reputable webmaster has a responsibility to keep his members informed. this is especially important for a webmaster who may own a hosting company upon which half of the ptre world depends. imagine the chaos, thousands of lost dollars, and failed businesses created if such a webmaster were to ... oh, say ... disappear for the majority of a month. even worse, imagine what would happen if the server crashed, the script updates bugged out, and the mail server developed a mind of its own in the absence of the webmaster. an enormous number of people would be cut off from their members and livelihood without any idea of what to do or where to get help.

slightly off topic, but such a situation is abusive to both members and other webmasters, alike.

for mycology: a reputable webmaster may also PLAN to move a large number of sites to a new server. he also may care so little about his customers that he wouldn't even tell them what was happening.

alright, i'll shut up now.

Here's an email I got from a WM of a program I'm in today...this seems to fit right in with this topic:

My question is: Why can a WM get away with saying "I don't have that much cash right now"??? If you have a program, and people legitimately earn that much, YOU HAVE TO PAY! I have to pay my mortgage every month, whether I have the money or not. We own a company as well and I can't tell 200 guys who've worked hard all week that "Oh well, I spent all our cash we took in so you don't get a paycheck this week This kind of attitude and arrogance, be it online or off, really ticks me off!!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


This is email goes mainly to the members who keep emailing asking when they will get paid.
The truth is i have over 350 paypal requests right now.this equals over $1500.
I do not have that much cash right now.I have already put out over $2000 out of pocket and do not have anymore to put out.
I do guarantee everyone will get paid.it will take time as i can only payout what i get in.Which brings me to an important topic.How many of you have joined programs that i have sent out?I know the answer not many.Most new gptre that i send out i am lucky to get 5-10 members under me.I depend on signups under me to make the money for payouts.How many of you do valid searches?Again very few.This is another source of income.
How many purchase advertising from me?Again very few.
Keeping all this in mind maybe you can see why i cannot make payouts on time.
Oh lets not forget that if i have to answer 50 -100 emails everyday this takes away from my time to find other income sources.
I work 12 hour days in a shop and have limited time on the computer.I try to make the most of it,but its not easy when i got loaded down with emails about everything you can imagine.

I have purchased a couple of e-gold matrix and bubble scripts.These could be good money makers for everyone if they are used.If everyone made just 1 or 2 spends every week we would all make money.I do not let my bubble game reset like others do,i make a spend when needed to keep it going.
Please help to keep this site going.

thank you

E-gold matrix
http://207.44.210.36/~admin37/matrix/index.php?381750

Bubble game
http://207.44.210.36/~admin54/8139546/inde....php?ref=381750

Please make some spends and we can all make a little cash
and now a paid link to make up for my complaing




http://www.Smart-E-Mails.com/scripts/runne...php?EA=1815beae

AOL Users

We need to stop supporting programs that run out of money and can't pay their members.
Why do we keep spending our time and money to keep some of these programs around........knowing full well that they will never have enough money to pay us all?
Wishful thinking, I suppose.
Obviously, in MOST cases, inability to pay is a result of poor planning, no business sense, or just blatant running off with the money.
I am getting really tired of all the excuses and whining and begging and endless searches from these WMs struggling to keep their dying program alive.

If you don't have enough money, then raise your advertising prices.
If people won't buy ads at the higher prices, then I suppose your program won't survive.
These programs get into financial trouble and then offer ridiculously cheap advertising to stay alive.
They still have to pay us for our clicks though. The ad price can't possibly be high enough to pay us all.
But we all jump on the "cheap advertising" bandwagon and keep this viscious circle going round and round.

The market is flooded with way too many programs (some of which are run so poorly that I wish they would just disappear).

Competition is good, but these days it seems as though everyone and his brother is opening a new site every day!
And YES, some of these I'm sure are opened solely for the purpose of raking in a bunch of "advertising dollars" and then shutting down and running off with our money.

We all need to be a bit more selective regarding which programs we sign up with. We need to weed out the bad ones and stick with the really good ones that we trust.
Let the WMs that have earned our trust and proven themselves be the ones to open new programs and make this industry strong again.

...there definetly should Last summer I was doing PTR for EmailTreasures. A member was allowed to click on 19 'links' a day. After a couple of months, I was lucky if I was able to get 9 links as the others were all 'unavailable'.
I tried writing the WB several times and was worried about my payout because I had racked up quite a bit of money. And then...one day... they just disappeared.!!!
I did hear a rumor that they were sued but that's all I ever heard.
Has anyone out there ever heard of EmailTreasures?. If so, could you please pm me? Thanks

I agree! I don't care for it when a WM uses the paid emails as their own personal crying stone. We all know everyone has hardships in their life and I think that it is a webmasters responsibility to keep that personal stuff to themselves. Unless, of course it directly affects their abilty to send out their emails or keep up their site....

I have a huge heart and have come across some of those.. will you help my... so and so..., sent them money by pay pal (stupid me) and did not even recieve a thanks in the email!

I have done the same thing in the past for a webmistress who was sick and one site asked if we could buy ads , search and make a donation. I did all of the above, never did I receive notice that my ad ran and never did I receive a Thank you. I will never do it again. I have my own problems just like everyone, if we didn't have them we wouldn't be on here trying to earn money. I don't complain or ever ask for money. I bust my --- to make a life for myself and my child, so please keep the BS to yourself . This is a business not a Charity.

Anyone want to buy a bridge in Brooklyn? LOL

I totally agree. It is also aggravating when a program owes you money, they 'don't have the money' to pay you, but they do have the money to buy another script or another program.

And on the issues of webbegging, it is getting out of hand. And lets face it, how do you KNOW that the person is upfront about the need. I'm not saying anyone isn't telling the truth, but you do not know what the truth is in the cyberworld.

Beckie

When a webmaster tells they 'don't have the money' to pay us right now,but I see they are still sending high paying link with their own referral link,I don't understand them

Hi, you can find more info on Emailtresures here:

http://www.gptboycott.com/emailtreasures/

ROTFLMAO - Love it

Abuse by webmasters occurs when they mark each email with the high priority flag even though it only contains paid links.

Gee, you know, I actually READ the TOS on all sites before I sign up, and I don't remember seeing anything on anyones site saying I'd be expected to buy an ad,join a program under the webmaster, click a free link, or do a search! Okay, there may be a few of them that put the search thing in their TOS, but I don't sign up for those programs! And webmaster, guess what? I've redeemed from quite a few programs for a paid ad, and I didn't ever get more than 5-10 members sign up under me, either! So why would I want to buy an ad? Spend 15 to 50 bucks for an ad to make maybe an extra 50 cents a year in ANOTHER program that's going to say they can't pay when the time comes? Out of all the sites I've igned up on in the last year and 1/2, only mec-co-op-paidmail has consistently paid me in the time allotted by their TOS. Thanks, Carol, seems you're one-of-a-kind.

Zhiya,
Thanks so much!!! That was great. I'm glad that they're gathering info and actually going after these people. That was a great help.

Quoting: guylc2,May 5 2003, 01:21 PM][QUOTE=credittools,May 4 2003, 06:03 PM]Out of all the sites I've igned up on in the last year and 1/2, only mec-co-op-paidmail has consistently paid me in the time allotted by their TOS. Thanks, Carol, seems you're one-of-a-kind.


Other than the paid monthlies like linburst and opt in pays, I get paid regularly from matrix mails (for a total of over $100.00) and have been paid on time by pennies by email, cash for action and read them well ..... pretty much right after I have requested payment by them. And I have never heard about their personal problem either!!!

Another thing I am getting really tired of is all those "Programs I am a member of" links at the end of the emails. Then all the WMs referral links are listed there.

1) They are people, just like us.
2) They can go to a downline builder, just like us.
3) They can BUY an ad on their own program or at another program if they want to get referrals.....JUST LIKE US.

I personally don't do that, but I don't see anything wrong with putting a link at the bottom of the emails. However, I don't like the 3 page list of links that some of them put on there with every program they belong to.

I think if I have a program I believe in, I will send a paid email to all my members, just like anyone else would or put a ptc banner on the site.

Some WM do take advantage of their postions...

Yes I hate it when they dont have "enough" money to pay you...and then they go right out and purchace another site and start to promote that.

They should pay first before starting a new site. If they dont pay first on the first site, then how in the H*LL will they pay you on the 2nd or 3rd site that they purchaced? They wont and then they will fall deeper in debt and finally shut down all sites and members loose all their hard earned money.

ekelly I should make a list of 100 of my favs just for you in my emails ....just kidding!!

Okay, this is a update from yesterday. I don't know what to say. Someone "hacked" into her system to send this out. Weird. Yes, weird. I'm not going to give an opion before I hear some other thoughts on the subject.

1. She was caught red-handed, and is backtracking.
2. There is some malicious "hacker" out there playing a prank on her, just sending her mail out for her.

I don't know guys.
I would like to keep in mind that all the links credited me that were on the message. This means, I hadn't visited them before. If I had, Then I would have gotten that message... You know the one.

I don't know. I'm just not buying the whole "hacker" bit. This industry seems to be the only industry where WMs complain about hackers so much. If anyone else has ever seen another industry where they complain so much about "hacking" and blame them for everything, let me know. You guys should go after these "hackers" because they are causing you damage. You can hold them liable and get them arrested. Do something about it!

This warranted a +++ in my book:

Now that's taking responsibility. Not blaming anyone. That's great. More WMs should be like this! That tells us, it's all under control and they are handling it. Not some mysterious hacker they can't stop.

LOL Amy! Too funny!

A ref link or two is no big deal....but GEE WHIZ......some of them have 10 or 15 links down there at the end of the email!

I know what you mean, ekelly...you go to open the mail, and it's really long, and you think, "Oboy! Lotsa paid links!"--and there are 2 paid links and then a bunch of that stuff below it

Hey mmamamel How much for that bridge you have for sale in Brooklyn?

I didn't count linkburst or opt-in-pays because of I think of them as "paid to click" sites, even though opt-in has sent me quite a few emails lately;the only other one you've listed that I belong to is readthemwell, and while they do pay on time, they send out a lot of self-serving announcements about exploittheinternet and other of their investments...heck, I think they send me more of those verging -on-spam notices than they do real paid emails!(Shoot, don't get me started on readthemwell, I spent $15 for their gold membership about a year ago, and have collected back maybe 90 cents in that year)