With the rise of the anti-cheat link to catch either 1) non-English speakers or 2) people using the "cheat" program I've been reading about here, I thought of the effect the links have on good members who are, for whatever reason, not always paying attention when they click the links or who click the links before fully reading the accompanying message.

I've seen penalties ranging from negative payments (minus 10 cents) to "click 3 times and we'll cancel your account" to even "if you ever click this link, we'll cancel your account."

My idea is to put a timer -- 15 or 30 seconds, say -- on the link that will allow those who accidentally click the link to close it before it registers to their account. You could even put a message on the linked page that says "close this page before the timer expires or (whatever the penalty is) will happen."

Now, I haven't yet been fully victimized by the "do not click" link -- I've almost always spotted it, as far as I know. In fact, to my knowledge, I've only clicked one of these links once and read the warning as I was clicking the link. If there had been even a 5-second timer, I would've closed it before it registered. It was late at night, and I was a little tired, so even though it was clearly market, I missed it. There was no stated penalty, so I e-mailed the webmaster to ask about it. It was only a test link to see how many people would click it, and his response was friendly, so that wasn't a bad experience, but it got me thinking about ways to protect against cheaters without punishing good members.

Anyway, does the timer sound like a good solution, perhaps, to achieve the desired solution without penalizing the goof by the otherwise good program member? I know some PM say we're supposed to read everything in all of the messages, so it's our own fault, but without getting into the pros and cons of that argument, that's not really good public relations for a program -- too many mis-clicks, and they'll start losing otherwise good members. What do you think?

Sounds like a OK idea to me

A timer would be good, I did the same thing, read the warning as I was clicking the link. However, the *only* time I clicked the link was in a program that had NO warning at the top of the email that the link would now be included, and had NO space between the cheater link and the normal links. It also was a "click once and you will be deleted".

Most programs have approached this in a more fair way, giving warning at the top of the email, providing a clear separation between the real links and the cheater links, and giving three chances. I think as long as they do these things, it'll be more fair. Though a timer would be excellent, as I would've caught the one I did click.

Me too. I like the idea of a timer, especially with programs which like to hide the cheater links between the ads.

The timer might be a good idea for the english "test" but I would think it would defeat the purpose of using these link to stop the use of cheating software .

Explain how you think this please Lexie ?

Would the "cheat" software not click on the link as per normal - and then the "penalty" be appplied ? The timer would run it's normal course and then the "deed is done" as it were

I'm not familiar with how the cheating software works. What does it do exactly? I had assumed that it just opened all the links. If that was true, it seems that without a person there reading the ads as they pop up, then the timer would still run out (and the cheaters would still be caught). If the software closes the windows too soon, the cheaters wouldn't get credit for the ads with timers, either. What exactly does the software do? (This would be helpful to know in thinking about ways to help program owners make it more difficult for people to use it.)

From what I understand , the links are extracted and then you click them as normal and view pages as nomal . If you have a page that then opens saying .....

WARNING !! CLOSE THIS LINK BEFORE THE TIMER COUNTS DOWN OR YOUR ACCOUNT WILL ...... yada yada yada ........What are the cheaters going to do ? Close the window and avoid the penalty ??

E X A C T L Y !!!

Soooo -- because they are cheating - and therefore do NOT see that message - they suffer the penalty !! Closed account or whatever it may be.

OOh ! Yes , that's different . But I thought the writer suggested a warning on the webpage to alert "accidental" non cheater clicks from those who didn't read the message either and could stop the count down to doom ????

This is what I'm talking about .

I agree with timer idea.. today i was "punished" in AlienEmail... now i have -4$ in my acc.. guess i'll have to remove myself from that program.. And everything because i accidently clicked the link and wasnt fast enought to close the window till it loads..

Would you mind telling what the link was for ? Was it an english test ?

In the email:

This is not spam. XXX, you signed up for the privilege to receive our email
advertising.
Your user name is XXX. If you no longer wish to receive any emails from
AlienEmail,
you can close your account by going to:
http://www.alienemail.com/pages/userinfo.php .
Enter your password in the space provided at the bottom of the page. You will
lose all your earnings
and will not recover your referrals.

This a cheater link: Do NOT click this link under any circumstances. Your
account will be flagged as a cheater if you click this link and your account
WILL BE TERMINATED.


http://www.AlienEmail.com/scripts/runner.p...php?EA=20112898

<a href="http://www.AlienEmail.com/scripts/runner.php?EA=20112898">AOL Users</a>
DO NOT CLICK THIS LINK!!!
=======================================================================

The same..

I'm guessing it will be real hard to explain that one and get your account back . OUCH !

Tough for the person to explain clicking that Alien Email link, but that's kind of my point. We've all read our e-mail and clicked links when a little tired, bleary-eyed, whatever, and clicked a link then said -- "oops, I didn't mean to do that." If you want to kick people out of a program or penalize them for clicking those links, that's fine. That's what 's happening now. If you want to keep those good clickers who make the occasional mistake in your program, then you need another method -- maybe a timer -- to allow them to catch their mistakes before they're "punished." I'd guess that if the punishment links become common, everyone will eventually have an "oops" moment or two, and it will really hurt the PTC programs. People won't want to work hard to build up a balance in their accounts only to make a mistake and lose it all before they can cash out. I'm concerned that may hurt the entire PTC industry long-term.

Thoughts?

But I think that's the point gwilbur... we're not talking about the Paid to CLICK industry... we're talking about Paid to READ, which is what our advertisers are purchasing. That's what alot of us are trying to get back to... the Paid to READ and not just a bunch of people clicking on and off to make a quick 1/4 cent. As an advertiser, would you feel like you got your money's worth of 500 people clicked, took your 1/4 of a cent, but never saw your ad really so you got no signups?

OK , let me sum up what I'm getting at .

I don't have a problem with a timed link .

I do have a problem with a timed link that goes to a warning page for cheater links .

I agree a timed link will cut down on the accidents .

However , if the message is never read , even by the non cheater , or read to late , it will not completely eliminate the occational penalty for the tired , hurried or careless member(s).

I don't like "do not click or you are deleted" idea at all.
Honest people can accidentally click this link.
If this trend continues, many honest members who cannot get used to penalty links will just quit instead of trying to contact webmaster, and it makes harder to attract new members.
If new members are not coming, advertising effect drops also.

Unfortunately, I don't have any anti-cheating idea.
I wish if I had one...

Or prehaps members will just start reading a little more carefully ?

I have to support the wm for doing these "don't click links"

I have only been in the ptr since last summer and in the past 4 months or so, there has been so much cheating hacking and so forth. I see everything going down hill. I belong to about 25 programs and everything is slowing down because of cheating. For any and all of us to make any money, I support the wb on doing these sort of links. Don't get me wrong. I also have clicked a link (not a DO NOT CLICK one though) that I didn't mean to.

If I am too tired, hmm, the e-mail can wait till tommorrow!

Then payrate may need to be raised (Probably 1 cent minimum each link) than before to attract new members.

Do you think PTRs regularly sending 1/10 cent link with "do not click" link is worth promoting?

Any PTRs need new members while fighting against cheaters.

I think that's what we hope will happen. I don't expect to click on enough links by accident for it to drive me away, but I'm worried about the health of the business. If/when I do have an "oops" moment, I don't think I'll need a message to remind me -- I'll know it the second I click it -- but I threw that out as an idea to try to catch non-English speakers and auto-click cheaters (who don't even look at the page that comes up). If you want to crack down on people who don't read every message every time, then you'll not want to warn them on the page. I guess it depends on the extent to which you want to crack down. I'm glad I got some healthy discussion going here.

On the 1/10th cent links... I personally thing we've come to a point where those are or should be obsolete. I don't click them intentionally and don't expect my members to. Yes, some of my PTC's have that value but I'm trying to get away from that too... but I just won't send and email with a link for 1/10 cent anymore.

I've heard that if these anti-cheating links are made in a negative amount (that is, like -$1), that it makes the upline lose money.
How is this problem handled?

I actually agree with you here -- I'd like to find a way to get people to read the message more, too, because when I advertise I try to put enough relevant information in the message to make the idea of signing up appealing, especially if that information isn't on the page I'm sending people to.

I am also concerned that people will make mistakes a certain percentage of the time -- it's the nature of dealing with human beings -- and if they are penalized too often for their mistakes, then we'll reduce the number of people willing to be a part of GPTRE programs, and that many of those people we'll alienate are actually people we'd like to have receiving our messages.

One of the methods I didn't mention in the original message was the "click this 3 times in a month and your account will be cancelled" option, but that's also a good compromise. That should also be a sufficient buffer to separate scatterbrained people from cheaters.

I make mine a -.005 but I think I'm even going to change that to no value at all since if you click it 3 times you're out.

I'm sure that would attract more members . But would it scare away more advertisers ? You might get higher paying mails , but how many would you get ? Would it take you just as long or longer to reach min ? The inflex of more and more programs makes competition higher and higher .

To be prefectly honest . I don't expect every single word to be read on programs YOU personally are already a member of and familiar with . I wouldn't have a problem with you skimming though that ad , grasping it's basics . I do it myself . *GASP*.

I do have a problem with ... I didn't read it , that's why I clicked .

I'm getting the impression members think wm's are setting them up to fail . I don't think so . The links I have seen have been clearly marked , some with detailed descriptions and subject lines .

Lexie... take a look at the Email-Dollar support folder. The first time I sent one of these links out I screwed up royally. I thought no one would read down as far as I put it and if they did they'd see the "IF YOU CLICK THIS LINK $5 WILL BE DEDUCTED FROM YOUR ACCOUNT". Whew... took me a few days to fix that mess... but you'll see that 98% of the response were positive. Sure, you'll have the ones that get mad because they clicked it but truth be known, they're more mad at themselves or snazzy than the webmaster... it's just easier to blame us. We have great members and they want to succeed so they want us to succeed.

LOL! OOh boy . I'm gonna go take a peek now .

I really don't have a problem with these links.....

I see them, and ignore them.
If i actually do click them, then oopsy on me, hopefully if it does happen
it would only be a warning or minus pts or something.

But WM's do need to do something about all the cheating, and until
they find a better way, then I guess this will go on.

I didn't join all these programs to lose anything I earned due to cheaters helping to close down a program.
I'm just now getting more referrals, which makes more money for me, I just chanced a gold membership, I've been spending on ads here and there.....if I end up losing out too much I wouldn't join anymore Get paid programs.

I have no clue what else could be done to find and eliminate cheaters....so I guess everyone will have to be on the lookout for these links.
You hear so much of these links now, so just put it in your head that ALL emails will have a Do Not Click Link, scan the email, find it, then do your clicking on the good links.

The approach really seems to vary by the webmaster, and obviously none of them are intentionally setting people up to fail -- if they eliminate too many members, they'll eliminate their business, as well. It just needs some discussion and takes a bit of thought to make sure the desired outcome is achieved.

Also, in reference to your other message where you talk about skimming messages for programs you're familiar with... that one time I clicked on a "do not click" link, I was something like that -- I had determined at the beginning of the message that I wasn't interested, so I scrolled down to the link, but I scrolled past the link for that message and clicked on the "do not click" link just as I realized what it was. Like I said, the wm was cool about it, but I'm sure webmasters don't want to spend their time on too many of those e-mails, either, so I started thinking about the timer idea.

Having the cheat links in separate messages (with warnings in the subject and/or the body of the message) would cut down on that sort of mistake, but then you wouldn't be assuring that people were reading the other messages... which is why the wm needs to determine the goal of his/her anti-cheat links when deciding on the approach. Are you trying to eliminate non-English speakers and people using cheat programs? Then send the "do not click" link in its own message. Are you worried that the messages aren't being read closely enough? Then include it in an e-mail with other messages. In either case, a timer -- or a "3 strikes per month" policy -- would reduce the number of problems with members you'd probably like to keep, and both methods would probably eliminate most or all of the bad members you're trying to get rid of.

1 question i have.

if someone clicks that link and they are in your downline, that means I or anyone else who has a cheater in their downline will be "punished" also because we the "good and honest" people are their upline?

so therefore the good are punished as well as the cheaters.

so, instead of giving a chance, why not just give the link once and delete that account with no chances. rather than 3x like some of the wm's are doing.

i agree with the do not click links. i dont agree with the innocent being punished. heck this is like in war, the innocent lose.

gotmailcash gives 3 chances. forget the chances.

I'm guessing that the 3 chance rule is so those who accidently clicked have a chance to make it right . Maybe someone spilled a little coffee on their arm or something and jerked the scroll bar too far , passed the link they really MEANT to click ??

But I'm a little confused . If there's no penalty for the first 2 strikes , how does that effect the upline ?

Hmmm, yep I agree with what you are saying too and didn't think to add that to my post.


If someone in my downline does click on that link and loses $5---I don't wanna lose too, I didn't click the link. I can't be responsible for what all my referrals do. They could be tired, drunk, blind or stupid........
I'd hate to have to hand out applications before signing in my downline

Exactly lexie... that's why I'm pretty sure I'll be changing the link to no value... but those who click it 3 times either can't read english which is a requirement, they're not reading the emails which is a requirement, or they're using software that cheats advertisers.

ILMTL... the reason I fixed the whole mess caused by the $5 link was because of uplines. The reason I lowered it to -.005 was because of uplines and the reason I'm thinking of a no value link is because of uplines. You have to understand that this software is something that is just coming to light to webmasters and we're all trying to figure out the best way to handle it. We will... it just takes a little time and sharing our info to come up with the right way to handle it.

I kinda like Mary's idea of -1 point too. Doesn't hurt the ones that accidentally click too much, doesn't affect the upline much at all, but still lets you know you need to read before you click.

LOL! She had like 2 whole paragraphs explaining what had happened and what was coming . I wonder how many clicked anyway . I think I'll go check her sup. folder too LOL!

i'm not sure how everyone is doing the do not click links.

i read every ad anyways

but,

gotmailcash - 1st link 0 cents deducted. 2nd link clicked 5 cents subtracted and 3rd link - deletion of the account.

so, the 2nd link would mean uplines lose their %

secondly, alien webmaster is deducting also from uplines. i noticed that. so that means the links are worth a negative subtracted from the cheaters account, therefore, the innocent uplines account for their referral %

i have no idea what the links are worth in some of the emails going out. all i know is that some are just saying do not click. there is no amount given to them.

lol

i noticed that you used the 1 point link.

and yours is at the bottom so there should be no problem with that.

thanks for using the points.

1 point % will be nothing.

but the $5 gosh lol i missed it cuz as soon as i see a do not click, i quickly scroll down far away from that link rofl

as for people accidently hitting the links. if the link is put on the bottom after the disclaimer part.

there should be no problems with any one accidently clicking it. because everyone knows that the disclaimer is the end of the email.

i'm assuming this software you guys are talking about can't tell the difference and will click it??

Right... it extracts ALL the paid links without the member having to read the email.

Totallyduh has had a 20 second timer on their "Test Link" since day one. It hasn't cut down much on the people clicking it, if at all. I still get about a 20% click-thru rate on those links.



I agree, which is why TotallyDuh allows for ooops. We do have a 3 strike rule, click the link any 3 times in 30 days for whatever reason, then your account is subject to being closed. However we have some that click it every time. I've closed accounts where they clicked it 10+ times

After trial and error, we figured out a way to do that. We don't use the point system, but decided to use it just for the "Test Link". Now the uplines might see points in their downline. That's to let them know someone in their downline clicked the forbidden link So at a later date, if their downline decreases, they will know I closed an account of someone who insists on clicking that link, whether they aren't reading, can't read or are using the cheat software.


I couldn't of said it better myself

Beckie

ok thx

now to read the rest of the thread to see what kind of suggestions were made.

if mine wasnt given, my suggestion is to keep putting the do not click link after the disclaimer. this way there would be no "accidently" clicking and no excuse for anyone who is able to read english.

some webmasters use the do not click link in the middle though and sometimes an innocent could click it.

but, if its put after the disclaimer, there should be nobody comlaining about the do not click link.

and go for the deletion automatic of the account. no chances should be given. this is strict but i'd rather lose a cheater in my downline right away then after 3 clicks.

but then comes the problem that if a downline member is deleted, you lose their earnings also. so, this goes back to when they first started under you which makes it unfair because this person that just got deleted earned you earnings before the start of this new software program.

has to be a better way to catch the cheaters using this special link.

Have you seen an email from Totaly Duh? I would say she gives a fair amount of warning! LOL If you cant read that then you shouldnt be clickin...

But anyway. I dont mind the test links.....but I agree they should be at the end of the email. With fair amount of warning....If you click this then such and such will happen.

The 3 strikes your out (sounds a little like baseball) but gives the innocent a chance.

But I dont feel it should affect you if your downline is clicking. I think deducting points would be the best way.

I dont know anything about cheater software (I dont use it and wouldnt want to). It gives me something to do and I just Love reading. lol

I didnt make much sense did I?

Thanks for listening anyway.

Cheers and have a nice day!

when a downline member quits, the upline member loses their $$ earned from them.

so, by clicking the "do not click" link, the upline loses points or $$ as most are doing the $$ right now.

so if they are deleted, the uplines lose all the monies earned, including even before this special software was out.

and this shouldnt be. i think it should be just from the start of the "do not click" links that the uplines lose the money.

example. i have 1 person in direct 1 level who earned me 25 cents. by clicking that DO NOT CLICK link, not only will i be dedcuted the amount of the % by that referral but if that person gets deleted, i lose that 25 cents automatically and this was earned before the software cheating.

make sense?

You lost me......I dont know much about referrals I dont have many. So most of what I earn I do it by myself.

So if your referral quits or clicks and loses money then you lose to?

What I dont understand is......if you have a referral and they quit......shouldnt you keep what they have already earned for you? (Did I say that right?)

The upline SHOULD NOT BE PENALIZED for the mistakes of their downline. Right?

I think that sending out the test links is a good idea but it shouldn't hurt people's upline. I just went and checked my Alien Email account and I'm now
-$6.56 and -16,441 points . I was almost to cashout and I've been saving my points for months to get the gold membership there.

thats my point.

the uplines are getting penalized.

and alien mail is one webmaster is actually getting a kick out of this one as evidenced by her announcement on the top of each email sent.


to lucky:

when you have a downline, their earnings go to you also by a certain %.

so if they delete themselves, you lose thier money also.

so by clicking these test links, innocent people are being penalized. and this shouldnt be.

the webmasters can make it so that the DO NOT CLICK link only penalizes the cheater. not the others.

and EStewart, i'm sorry for you cuz of that. gosh write an email to the webmaster. cuz that sure isnt fair to you.

*Sigh*

Ok so say my referral has earned me .25 cents.........if they quit then they would take this out of MY account? That is wrong....very wrong.

Like I said....I dont have many refferals.....Now I know why. I only join program I can reach payout by myself.