Hi all this is not an complaint but i am wondering

Just noticed my last ClickSalary payment was sent from "Tim Flavin" but he doesn't own ClickSalary does he? (thought Puiwaa owned it)?
Anyone else here noticed this?

Just wondering

sometime's po's help each other out with payouts, that's probably what happened

Hi,

I truly hope that I am totally misunderstanding what you are saying here.

As often as the program owners see how upset the members here get here regarding our information being passed onto new owners or just anyone for that fact; now you are saying that it's okay for another program owner to make payouts for another program?

It's okay for program owners to toss our information over to any ole' owner THEY trust thinking we all will be happy about it just because we got paid?

Bill from BGPayMail was recently raked over the coals for doing this.

Now you come here letting us know you think it's okay and you do it also??? And from your response I'm guessing you know the owner of ClickSalary does this too.

Amazing ...... truly amazing. I am so glad I am not a member of these programs or any of yours, moni. Thank you for letting me know in advance any of my information is not safe with you and any privacy rules on your sites will and can be violated.

Moni, since you know this happens ....... please inform the members here which programs you know of that allow this to happen. I'm sure there are some members that would be very curious, myself included, to see this list of programs that have no regard for their members or their own privacy policies.

Lisa

Ewwww, I hope not. There are alot of POs I wouldn't have near my private information or paypal address with a 10 foot pole. I would hope that none of the programs I belong to make a practice of this. Paypal address are people's personal e-mail addresses afterall and should not be passed on without the express consent of the person they belong to.

WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT"

i guess what i said was very vague and open to alot of interpretation LOL

lemme "resay" what i meant to.

For example:

Program Owner A owes his members $4.55 worth of paypal payouts

and to pay each person maybe $0.25 each because it is a no minimum payout program....if the member does not have a free paypal account, they will get dinged $0.30 + fees (usually 3-4% ish)

so sometimes he will approach a fellow Program Owner B to make mass payouts for him

so Program Owner B mass pays all those payouts, and the members don't get charged any fees.

and Program Owner A personally pays Program Owner B to do this for him.

It's usually for mass payouts that program owners help each other out.

I wish i could do mass payouts, i'd be doing alot more random payouts if i could! (but my dang computer doesnt have excel etc, but lets not go there)

I am not condoning this, nor promoting this idea of program owners helping each other with mass payouts, i was just simply trying to answer a question for you.....these are not my personal opinions, just facts of "probably" why you were paid by another program owner.

thanx

monica

to make a payment does not give out any personal information

and with clicksalary owning being in china he probabaly does not have access to an unlimited paypal to make tons of payments so then the alternative would be egold only

so no private information gets show at all

So are you saying the payer isn't seeing my payee e-mail address? If the answer is No then great it's all good if the answer is anything else BAD BAD BAD.

Ender, I'm not sure what she's "saying."

However, I can answer your question.

Yes, the person doing PayPal's masspay can see your email address used for PayPal along with your real name.

In other words, moni, knows for "fact" that there are "probably" program owners out there that do allow other owners the pleasure of having their member's information. And I guess she's not willing to give up those program names since she did not answer my question.

I typed it before and I'm going to again. There was another program owner accused of allowing others to do his PayPal payments and was raked over the coals. Now we have another program owner come into this thread stating for "fact" that it "probably" happens.

Am I the only one that sees something wrong with this?

Lisa

I have tried very hard to give up this forum the past few days as it is just not worth posting anything as a PO here anymore because of the trivial bickering that is going on, I applaude Enchanted for jumping down everyones throat tonight over it.

Now, yes, I have access to the email address, duh, how else do you think I made the payment, but what you don't know, and why should you, it's not your program, or your place, is puiwaa hosts all his sites on my servers, i.e. I am his host as well, so I have access to all his data and many other sites data just for the shear fact they are on my computers and I have admin rights to all databases.

But you know what else you did not know, I have been doing web hosting and ISP services for the past 14 years, I have more expiriance as a host than anyone in this industry, and that is not ego, boasting or anything else other than fact, and I do know the conciquenses of divulging and respecting my access to personal data, I do have ethics far above and beyond many in this industry and I do not loose a wink of sleep over anything I do as I know I've done the right thing in my mind and nobody should ever feel wronged by my actions with my access to their personal data. Lastly, I could care less what anyones email address is, I have enough on my plate to keep me busy just servicing my customers, members and advertisers.

Just tired of the mis-information being spewed as fact in so many threads, but this is the last you will see of me in public until more learn how to act around here, I may be just as guilty, but I have chosen to not add fuel to any more fires from now on.

Hi,

I do not see any "mis-information" given in this thread.

Members join a program and are bound by rules of that program. The program has a privacy policy that they are also suppose to uphold. It is NOT stated in any privacy policy that ...... "If I can't make the payments, then I will be giving your name and email address to someone else."

The information that is passed on and on and on in this industry is getting absolutely ridiculous. It is up to ME who has my name or my email address. It is NOT up to anyone else; including YOU regardless of how much you have on your plate on the moment or not.

The members of this forum have seen too many times what happens when our email address/names fall into the wrong hands and have had to pay for that mess.

If an owner feels the need to have someone make their payments for them, then the members should have that choice to decide if they want to pass on that information. That is the whole reason the dang privacy policy is there.

Lisa

The mis-information is not central to this thread alone, it's the constant bickering, witch hunts, public roastings and the like that keep most PO's out of this forum.

I spent alot of time on my post looking at every concievable way somebody could have tossed my words back at me, and you topped it with failing to ever read them and continue with some other agenda you seem to have.

I own the server the database is on, I have every legal right to all the data within that database, I also have a legal responsibility to respect the privacy of those I do have access to. Were did you see me selling, divulging, comprimising, or otherwise not respecting that privacy I have the legal obligation to uphold?

Sorry to disappoint you, but I do not have an agenda here.

I am tired of watching program owners toss our information and when I type information that could be my real name ...... my email adddress ..... my home address ....... I don't care what it is, but I am tired of watching them hand this information off to any Tom, Dick, or Harry they feel the need to.

It is getting ridiculous and it needs to stop.

I don't care if you are the host or not. This program owner handed over information without notifying his members or letting them know that he was going to allow someone else to do his payments for him. That is against the program's privacy policy. This is the program owner not following his own rules that he has set up for his program.

If I wanted you to have my email address to my Paypal ..... then I would have given it to you. This owner had no right to just hand that information over to you; none whatsoever and I'm getting tired of this happening all to often.

Lisa

Tim I still support you 100%!

PA edited

PA edited

LOL

I am not a "wolf." I am a person and I would appreciate it if you could stop typing otherwise.

You state that I "never actually read what we post" ..... do you have someone in your pocket? Who is we? And you would be accurate in your statement that I do read your post and take as a grain of salt.

You do not know anything about me. I do not go looking to find fault in anyone. I have been a member here for quite a while and actually do not post that much. I do post when I feel strongly about something. Or if someone is desperate enough to come here begging for help.

It's sad to see even one person here that supports someone that applauds program owners that ignore their own privacy policy by passing on members information without the member's knowledge.

Lisa

Whenever I see a TOS or privacy policy it has the name of the site that you are making the agreement with.

It doesn't normally (ever?) have the name of the host that you are agreeing to share your information with.

I think this is where the confusion is coming from and I don't think it is a matter which deserves responding with condescending insults rather than clarity.

If the host has a legal right to the names, addresses, paypal information etc and to use it as they see fit, why is their name not on the agreement and why is this not disclosed in the privacy policy?

We may know that the host is holding the information but we do not expect them to access it in this way, and I feel it is valid to question this practice when we have such people as Steve Allen out there and the not long gone Evelyn Turner and now it's being said that by signing up and agreeing with the TOS and privacy policy with the named site, that the host is an unnamed co-signatory rather than a third party who is holding the databases and I would have thought would have a privacy policy in place that they would not access the private information containted within a database on one of their servers other than to handle the database as a part of the host duties to the web site.

Regardless of your personal attack, I will still not stoop to your level by belittling you.

This topic is actually important to me as is my personal information.

To see someone come in here and try to explain away a reason why it's okay for any program member to give access to member's information is wrong. I don't care if you the host ...... i don't care if the owner trusts you or lives with you ....... I don't care.

It is my choice who has my information. But for some reason you and it would seem Ray also thinks that hey ...... you were paid what's the big deal.

Well, it is a big deal because it happening in this industry way too often.

Lisa

See, you still have not read my post, have you? You have no say in how your info is passed on while it is being passed onto those that have a right to it. The datebase is on my server, I own the server, I do not lease the server, I own it, I have a right to the data on it regardless of what you say or think, I have a right to it regardless of what the privacy policy is of the program that holds the info.

Your what if only has merit if your data was passed to someone without a right to it, that has not happened in this situation, so again you must be promoting some other agenda that is unclear as anything else is without substance.

Could you please list all sites on your server now that you have explained that you have access to anything you want on this server regardless of what the program's privacy policy is ??

You will have to subpoena that information as I also have a legal obligation to my customers not to disclose who they are without their consent, just as I have an obligation not to disclose any other personal data found under my care. And yes, I spoke with puiwaa prior to any post in this thread.

And with that, I bid you all adieu, the edited have yet again cirlced so I realize anything said in this forum is futile, nobody listens, or only hears what they want. There has never been a true exchange of ideas that is so common on most forums. I guess everyone will be left to re-printings of my admin messages from here out, as I will only lurk at GPF from here til I see changes.

First off..I think passing member info is WRONG and yes it has become almost a non issue because so few seem to care..or the care is selective.

BGpaymail was mentioned in this thread and it made me realize how few actually gave a ###### when it was him.A few of us posted but with almost no support from others and then here we are with this site and its suddenly a major issue.

I keep reading how people want to know the answer to so many things. Why this and why that.

Where were all those concerned when it was BG?...

I am not in any way saying that if one gets away with it then everyone should but it would be nice if there were some pretense of this "across the board" type reaction I hear being called for..

It seems everyone has a different board...

Have a good one

Belle
ETA..btw with BG there was no "probably" happened...It did.

A 30 page thread compared to a 2 page thread.



You aren't in every single thread about scammers, does that mean you are giving your tacit approval to the ones in the threads you don't go into and make a fuss? No. So do you think it might not follow for other people too?

There's never enough support against anything that's wrong in PTR and related subjects. I don't think the answer is going to be in criticising people for not coming into the thread where 'you' were getting a hard time. Where were you in the threads where Ender, Lisa, myself were getting a hard time? Did we come into the BG thread and say 'where were you when no one was supporting us?

This is not the answer.

Well I see you are doing what you do best wag..and exactly as I expected. We cant be everywhere at once etc etc...Yeah OK.

The BG thread went on for a couple weeks...Isnt it strange that was ONE of the rare ones that got no attention..

You are right wd..There is a big difference betweeen a 2 page thread and a 30 page one...THAT is why I find it strange that so few bothered with that one..( actually I correct myself...I dont really find it strange at all.

I have no idea who owns the site in question tonight but one thing .........You know what forget it...Its so not worth it...and I am sure everyone is in a hurry to get back to tonights entertainment.




Do take care wagdoll....Good luck in your "crusade".

Belle

Belle, I was trying to be supportive and say we all feel that way, that the important issues dont get enough attention.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry the BG thread didn't get the attention it deserved. I'm sorry I annoy you so much.

Hi,

I personally know of only one PO who does it regularly and never seen a complaint about it but only praise for regular payments ....

I must say that I have lost interest in many of those discussions due to the fact that I feel some praise some PO/people/sites/fora for one thing and blame others for exactly the same according to their personal preferences/dislikes or according to the forums they post at. I don't say people can't post like that, it's their choice, after a while, it simply makes it less credible to me and I skip the posts and move on to another topic where I can really learn something or exchange informations without feeling misled.

sophie

me too

I so agree ........

except for the being misled part. To much of a skeptic to believe anything without proof

The fact of the matter is that unless the site is owned by the same person that owns the server that it's on, your information may not be secure. Remember that on the one hand the site has a TOS with it's members and another TOS with it's host.

Or look at it this way. When you go to the store and pay for something with a credit card about 40% of the time a portion of your information is going into a database that spits out information and statistics about purchases.
Or how about when you return an item to a store and they ask for your personal information - it's because they're putting your info into a "return" database so they can track the number of things that you return to their stores. This info is used to help them spot trends overall and also to locate people that have a high number of returns. Some stores will actually stop allowing you to return things if they decide that you've returned too many items during a certain time period.
Did you know that anyone who receives credit card offers in the mail does so because the company has already reviewed your credit bureau and something in it has triggered an automated letter?
Did you know that if you move and don't inform the companies that send you bills and the mail is returned to them that they will run an inquiry on your credit bureau and that the inquiry can effect your credit rating?

Unless you have either:
1) filled out a specific request with all your credit cards, your bank, and every store that you use a credit card at
or
2) never had a bank account, never had credit anywhere, and have always paid cash
your personal information is being passed around among big businesses.

I'm not saying that y'all don't have a right to be upset. What I am saying is that the only info he had were your email addresses and your name. In the real world the info being shared is much more personal like names, addresses, phone numbers, your income & debt, how many kids you have, your education level, etc.

Belle,

I was not part of the BG thread and I know that it was noticed by some because of the comments that I have received.

In all honesty I had other issues that I needed to deal with that were unrelated to PTR over the last month or so. If you look around I really have not posted much here or anywhere about anything that would take much thought or energy.

I truly did not want to get involved in that thread because after seeing the same thing posted over and over I did not want more frustration in my life.

By me not posting in that thread in no way does that me that I support some of the things that did happen or are still happening.

Last night when I read this thread and saw that a program owner was so non-chalant about having other program owners do this struck me wrong and wanted to make an attempt to get involved again here.

Babbling? Probably, my appolgies.

Wags and girll, thank you for helping explain this so that I can understand it and I do wish more members would take notice of these types of actions the owners are taking. Instead of thinking ...... I got my pennies in my PayPal .... who cares where it came from or how I got it.

Lisa

I don't know about anyone else and I certainly won't attempt to speak for anyone else, but I for one am getting sick and tired of this "Pokemon PTR" game that some POs feel it is ok to play. It seems to be acceptable for POs to trade/buy/sell programs like trading cards or to swap off members payment info in return for whatever the favor of the day is.

I realize it is a "hobby" to many POs, but please bear in mind that private information is just that, private. YOU were the one who was entrusted with it, not any of your online friends, do you actually know the people you pass this information on to?

I don't know who you're talking about, but maybe the reason for lack of complaints is the fact that no one has realized what's going on. I'm not in very many programs anymore, but I do know that sometimes payouts come from a business account that doesn't include the specific program name in it, so if the same thing applies to whichever program/PO you know of who does this regularly, then I can understand why nobody has complained.

If they knew who you meant, maybe they would start complaining loudly about it.

It would be helpful to everyone if you told us who you're talking about so that any of us who are members could make an informed decision about whether or not we wanted to stay members.

I would suggest that owners should change their TOS, and that private information could be passed on to other owners in order to make payments.

Here's a list of all the sites on the same server as clicksalary.com, but he's probably got other servers.

BTW, this is very much public information... Anyone can access it from most whois sites, I used whois.sc.



1. 1000dollarpayday.net
2. affordablehomeloans-mortgagefinancing.net
3. alternative-energy-sources.net
4. arcade-gameplay.net
5. auth4all.net
6. auto-insurance-4all.net
7. bestpaydayloansites.net
8. big-poker-rooms-online.net
9. big-poker-rooms-onlines.net
10. birds-4all.net
11. bondfundscredit.net
12. car-insurance-4all.net
13. cardonation101.net
14. cardonation4u.net
15. cash-advance-payday-loan-sites.net
16. cashflow-101.net
17. cats-4all.net
18. cctv4all.net
19. cellphone-ring-tones.net
20. charts4all.net
21. clicksalary.com
22. com4all.net
23. creditcards-4all.net
24. cruises-4all.net
25. customer-outfitters.net
26. diamonds-4all.net
27. dogs-4all.net
28. downline4all.net
29. dxb4all.net
30. emedia4all.net
31. enterprisersptr.com
32. entertainment4all.net
33. ezine-4all.net
34. ezwealth4all.net
35. fedcare4all.net
36. fiber4all.net
37. financial-credit.net
38. forum-4all.net
39. freeware4all.net
40. get-me-credit.net
41. getwebdivorce.net
42. goldcardmiles.net
43. hardware4all.net
44. healthinsurance4all.net
45. healthyvitas4all.net
46. home-mortgage-equity-loans.net
47. homeopathy4all.net
48. hotwings4all.net
49. hurricane-ptr.com
50. immo4all.net
51. instantinsurancequotes.net
52. interviews-4all.net
53. investments-4all.net
54. ipt4all.net
55. iptel4all.net
56. jewelry-4all.net
57. job4all.net
58. keenclicks.com
59. kvmtrade.info
60. kvmtrade.net
61. lakeviewclicks.com
62. light-mails.com
63. loan4all.net
64. loanquotes4u.net
65. lucy-loves-links.com
66. mailingmania.com
67. marraige4all.net
68. medicalinsurance4u.net
69. might-pay-to-promote.net
70. mobiles4all.net
71. moneyfutures.net
72. moonlightpaidmails.com
73. mxptr.net
74. myonlineworkathome.net
75. nature4all.net
76. net-extremes.com
77. nodownpaymentmortgages.net
78. online-investment-scams.net
79. onlinestudentloans.net
80. opps4all.net
81. outandaboutfinds4all.net
82. pets-4all.net
83. profit-futures.net
84. profitfutures.net
85. proxies4all.net
86. quickbooks4all.net
87. quickloans123.net
88. quickloans4u.net
89. reality-4all.net
90. recipes4all.net
91. redeem4ads.com
92. ring-tone-site.net
93. ring-tone-sites.net
94. ringtones-4all.net
95. scholars4all.net
96. serpent-clicks.com
97. software4all.net
98. spaz-emails.net
99. studentloans4all.net
100. sudan4all.net
101. thousand-dollar.net
102. ticket4all.net
103. toyz4all.net
104. travel-destinations-4all.net
105. trivial-knowledge.net
106. vitamins-4all.net
107. voip-4all.net
108. webshop4all.net
109. xbox-4all.net
110. yoghurt-4all.net
111. niggyemails.net
112. puiwaa.com
113. merseymails.com
114. 1000dollarpayday.info
115. thousand-dollar.info
116. travel-destinations-4all.info