when is a webmaster/mistress respinsible for database losses? i am in a company that has had recent losses do to circumstances beyond thier control. i do however have a problem when they claim a 3 week database loss but referrals from jan. are lost too. now if database losses were recent why should they say there is nothing they can do about referrals from back in january being lost?

I think rarelly wm are responsible for database losses...
sometimes they do something wrong and all data is lot, but it is usually beyond their control

BUT they should back up quite often -almost everyday or at least once a week!!
so those losses would be less important...
and if they do not back up it is their responsability

just my mind

When they lose more then a week data the webmaster is a fool.

hmmmmm....

they should not lose more than 24 hrs.

That's what i can (nearly) guarantee for Rewarding-eMail and AlohaCash (only if i'm verrrrry late at home and it's not weekend, it may happen that i pause the backup 1 day, but that's verry rarely =

But when you read the terms, you will find a lil point, that says, they are not responsible for dataloses .... sorry



Have agreat day,

greetz, Heike

sighs, I know all about orograms that lsoe their data base I have lost in 4 programs and I was gold in one of those (didnt lose gold membership but lost ALL referals ) this last one tho, I am tired of it and I am quiting I believe cause I cant start from scratch, I was almost to cashout Im tired of starting over. I knwo it isnt the w/m faulyt but I do believe they should do backups weekly at least, that would not discourage members as much as total ;psses, this is just my 2 cents have a great weekend all

arrrgghh, Just found out what happened at totally-duh. I spent time clicking on links and e-mails and I find out I don't have an account anymore bc of their database losses. WM should be responsible. I'm thankful I just joined that program or I'd be more ###### off.

Sorry, but as an ex CPA admin., I disagree with the fact it's not their responsibility. Yes, data gets corrupted. Yes, servers go down. Yes, hosts do stupid crap, too. But as an owner of any program, it is in their best interest and good sense to back up daily at least. It's just sound business sense. Also, advertisers and members have more confidence in those webmasters that take that responsibility seriously and make those backups.

Anyone who deals with a computer and business knows this. And is a fool for not doing it. Sorry, webbies, but that's the honest truth. You cry when we spout off about it merely because some of you know better. When we buy advertising, when we pay out dearly for advertising, and some of you don't make good on it if you lose your database...you're losing a reputation. Like someone on forum said recently, if you lose it, you make it up. We DID pay you for that advertising, we did pay you for that gold. Others paid people to join. If you can't keep track of your money, that my friends isn't our responsibility. We're all losing here.

What is so difficult about backing up anyway? You took the programs on, you better darn well learn how to operate it. And yes, you can get ugly with me all you want, but this is pure truth.

All these english tests, data base cleansings, etc. are fine and well and good, but we can't "cleanse" you webmasters except by unsubscribing and losing out entirely. But think about it, if you keep practicing bad business...you WILL lose every single member, then where will you be?

It's both sides here. And we all better be thinking about that.

My two cents or make that .00000002 pts.

that's kind of what i thought and i was very sad when the webmistress of that site said she couldn't do anything about referrals that had signed up in jan. (16th to be specific) when the data loss was recent.

I believe you are referring to my site. Let me explain AGAIN. My backup files were CORRUPT. The usuable backup I had was 3 weeks old. You lost refs gained in those 3 weeks. Any others you lost were due to people unsubbing, being deleted for 30 days with NO activity whatsoever or being deleted for having more than 1 account (not too many of these). If you joined in a dl builder here or at JOF...I have let those who were lost know so they can sign up again and I can fix the dl's there and credit those who lost.

I apologized and said I would do whatever I could to make this up to my members. I am being 100% honest here. What else would you like me to do?

Amy

You have never had a problem huh?

The only members lost were those who joined from March 5th and ON.Do you have first hand knowledge that your ref from Jan did not unsub?

And I am not claiming no responsibility here folks! I am being 100% honest and trying to make the best of the situation!

sorry had to edit my bad typing!

amy i am not trying to burn you here i am just trying to understand why when the very last day before the site went offline i still had all three refs. the other two have lost their refs as well and they were there right before as well. i am not trying to ruin you and i have not quit yet but i am concerned that there may be a bigger problem maybe you haven't discovered yet. i have not quit your program yet because you have at least been on here trying to get it straight.

Do you happen to know the username of the ref? If so please email me webmaster@amysrewards4mail.com

I asked that everyone email me with any info that could help with your account. If that person is in my system I will glad fix the problem. I am willing to work with you here. You were one who had no idea how much you had in pts or earnings....I said email me. I will see when you joined and we will work out some compensation in the way of earnings and points.

Hmm, I dont think 3 weeks is that bad especially if the back up is currupt , and seems like you want to help the person get their referals back if possible, the programs I lost all on I got nothing back at all in 2 of them (still with them because it was a hacker and I do LIKE these prgrams and the w/m`s ) oh and there was another program I love that was hacked and took even longer to get back up and I lost all my referals but again it was a hacker and the w/m put me back where I was supposed to be and brought my gold back and put some referals in my downline, and I lost no earnings (that was nice) But now I have been a member of one program for 7 months and all of a sudden they lost me, my earnings, my referals, everything I was close to payout, and its a good program but I am ready to quit cause they can not find me any where oh well, I need to clean out my programs any way, this just wasnt one of the ones I wanted to let go of.

An when the backups are corrupt? How that happen I don't know. Sounds like a sever thing. She posted she had at least a 3 week old backup that works. All a WM can do is make backups daily or weekly. If the server corrupts the backups then what, yell at the WM? Thats no solution.

What this business needs is a online business that stores backups for WM to prevent their server/host from corrupting their backups when they crash.
Even a WM support group joining together to pay expenses for storing backups on a weekly schedule. Then no matter what their server/hosts does its protected. Just pick a good server/host for storage that none of the WM use for their programs that allow file storage.

No the backups were mine...downloaded from the server....the one zip disk of mine was corrupt. So I am thinking my zip disk was corrupt

As a webmaster who was effected by the hack attack of the first of the year...and who did LOSE the entire database......Let me share a few things.


One.... First when you start a site.....there is so many types of backups that can be done and depending on the scripts you have....each type does a different thing.....In addition.... no one tells you which works for what type of sites..

Cac sites for eg...are text based so you can easily do a backup via Ftp if you lose a member...you can easily restore one member at a time...

Depending on your amount of members,,,interent connection and alot of things....this could take quite a while to back up on your pc.

Or if you have myecom sites.....you have a database....now in the admin itself thier is a way to do back up,,,thiers ftp and then thiers your cpanel way....

So.....which way do u do it..that will work the best if you have an issue???/ Trust me thier are lots of people who dont know....plus with those types of scripts you must upload your whole data base if you have an issue ...not just one member.

once again....it takes time and space depenind on how large of memberbase you have.

In my personal case.....I did have back up and so did my host........however...both ended up corrupt.....chance are rare but it does happen....

I was devestated...... ....... however I could of just said at the point the heck with it and left it closed......but no......

I took the heat.....I rebuilt the site....gave all the memberships back....offered free ads.....sent out higher paying mails.....whatever I could to regain confidence... It took time and I think I have managed to do it.

MOST of these webmasters did nothing intentianally....and if you were sitting beside them when they figured out thier membership base and hard work is lost......youwould feel bad for them as well.

its just not the members who lose....the webmaster does too....they lose thier hard work, time,,,confidence of members and much more.

Like any business......everyday is a learning expericence... unfortuantely the bad things are always the ones teach the biggest lessons..

Just my 2 cents

sounds pretty good clickguy maybe soemthing can come of this?

jazmynin your one of the first 2 programs I was talking about, that I stuck with becuase I liked the program and w/m You can tell when a w/m is really trying, some do and some dont just like some members care and some dont.
I wish there was a easy solution so everyone could be happy, but there seems to be more to this then we all realize (cept for maybe ther w/m`s who have to deal with this and get the headach

i am staying with this but i just wanted some input to help me understand the nature of database losses. i wasn't trying to flame anyone.

I'm glad you are not leaving! My biggest fear is losing members over this! I will do what I have to do to repair as much of the "damage" as possible. And believe me when I say I am looking for at least 2 different places/ways to save all the stuff!!

I am bouncing around forums, emails etc trying to answer questions, get info, give info and start tackling accounts.

I was simply trying to give some imput with an example for people to put into prespective thats all.....

ty i appreciate all the help from all to understand this.

i suggest wb shall pay for all member at least1$ as a punishment after confirm their member id, at least the member in the donwline thread.

I can definately relate to that. I bought a script for a ptr, my first, and it came with a 1 page web-manual. Most of it I figured out, but there are still some things I'm learning as I go.



The biggest mistake I made, and no longer do it, is overwriting my previous backup with the most current. I was trying to conserve space on my pc. Bad idea, cause the last one I saved was corrupt. And now I'm receiving a barrage of emails from people telling me how stupid I am...oh well live and learn.




I hope I can do the same, in time. I'm trying to keep my major frustration in tact and not take it out on my members. Emails that I need to answer, I answer, others are set aside until my head clears.

All in all, I'm learning, coping and moving forward. All I can do at this point is try to rebuild our reputation and hope to suceed.

Beckie

Ok I'm editing this again....since I seem to be showing my frustration.

I think I'll keep my thoughts on this to myself, I would of deleted this post if I could, but oh well......

Beckie

Well, I wasn't "flaming", I was stating a pure fact of business, but Clickguy has the right idea. If it is at all possible, a regular data backup service is a very good idea.

I realize it costs a lot of money for all of this, but the simple fact is that if you start any business whatsoever, you have to...have to...have to think this all out. Given today's problems with the online world with hackers, cheaters, server problems, host problems, corrupted personal software/hardware, etc., this is a MUST if you want to stay afloat.

Dana, and a few other webbies, yes are quite good and honest and do their very upmost to keep their membership loyalty high. And they go out of their way to get things up and running at a considerable cost to themselves. What I'm saying here is that it is foolish not to go after everything you can to keep your business afloat and at least reasonably well flowing. There's ways to go about it, with extensive research, not just online but through other sources, to find a way.

Members and webmasters alike for the most part try hard, but it's just sound policy for the owners/managers to look into better ways to keep their database intact. It might be difficult, but I don't think it's impossible.

Not going to wilynily just out a proggie for problems, but if programs are constantly having these things happen, something needs to be looked into. Not saying this particular one, but in general. And see, the members see this happen a lot and understandably get upset and fearful of the losses they each might have taken because of it.

I am probably going to regret this but......

I understand both sides. Not only am I a member and have lost in web site data loses (don't think I resigned up either) but I am a webmaster and I run a hosting company with several PTR sites on my server. Talk about pressure!!! I constantly remind my hosted webmasters to back up!! You can not depend on the srever let alone the server back ups. Things happen. But, webmasters also do not know thier files are corrupted. It really is a catch-22 situation. I myself am looking into another hard drive to basically hold all my site back ups and that is it. You do use up a lot of harddrive space especially if you run more than one site.


Sooozie, you make a heck of a point. And believe me we do look for better ways. One thing I do know is that webmasters who care are devistated more than the members. There is a lot of time, money and love put into our programs and nothing hurts us more than to have to say "sorry, lost the database, you have to start over". None of us ever want to say those words and pray hard we don't have to. I have never had to but I have had to go through a similar ordeal not long ago and I cried for 3 days. My heart was literally breaking.

Yes, a lot of people do jump in not knowing what all is involved in running a PTR; that is why some last and some don't. But we all have to start somewhere. I understand completely how you members feel. Seems like everytime you turn around a website has either been hacked, crashed or worse, scammed you. It makes it very hard to promote programs becasue who do you believe? Who do you trust? Are they going to crash? Get hacked? Run off with my hard earned money? I know, and I am with you on that one. The running of these programs is hard as well. Cause we have to work twice as hard to prove ourselves and gain your trust. And that is very hard after so many dishosnest , no good webmasters (and they aren't even worthy of that title) have hurt this industry and continue to do so. But we keep on going.

We do our best to keep good accurate back ups (I know I do). The webmasters who don't, I just hope they are never paralized by a crash, hack or whatever comes thier way. And we are always on the look out for better ways to do things. I know it seems like the problems exist in the PTR industry but it happens everywhere. You just see it more here because this is where you are. Stormpay is having major issues with thier server right now. So it is all over the place. We do our best. And we appreciate members like you who are as passionate about being a member as we are about being a webmaster. Crashes, hackers and scammers are just an everyday part of the internet world. You can not avoid it. Back ups are a chance too. You never know when something can happen to that as well. We can back up on our hard drives at home, on the net, anywhere you can think of but the bottom line is nothing is 100% when it comes to technology.



P.S. I do pay (and it is paid per month, every month) to have my server and all sites backed up on a seperate hard drive and back ups are done every night. Still, this is not 100%. If it were I wouldn't worry about doing back ups. But it's not so I do.

(insert blushing face here) LOL well, I see if I ran a web site I would be in trouble LOL guess my idea of saving to your hardrive and deleting old files was a bad one... sorry, that is why I am a member and advertiser of many sites and NOT a program owner I wish there was a easy way to fix sites so that they could have acurate backup, but after reading this thread I guess nothing is cut and dry. I feel for the members and w/m`s becuase it is a lose - lose situation if the back ups are bad. Just want to say to all the good w/m` (you know who you are ) keep up the good work and if some things get messed up, your members know if you are honest and do care and they will NOT leave you in your time of need. The best thing for w/m`s and members is to always be honest. Good luck all and keep clickin

ruhappy says: keep up the good work and if some things get messed up, your members know if you are honest and do care and they will NOT leave you in your time of need. The best thing for w/m`s and members is to always be honest.


Exactly. And AK and you other webbies you're all correct. Lord knows I'm honestly not flaming you here...I've been in the business world for longer than most of you have been alive LMAO. AK, you are right, nothing is ever 100%. Not even a mind lol.

It takes a heck of a lot of work to maintain any business, no matter what it is. And a lot of thought, muscle, and money. My thoughts go to some of the younger, less experienced in business webbies out there who saw the ads for get paid sites, saw the low dollar amount, and decided to go for it..."easy money". NOT!!!!! And I think a lot are learning now.

One thing, back up daily. And I mean religiously. Set a time for it and stick to it, as you would certain tasks in a general place of business. If you are one of the lucky ones that have a real income outside of this business, go buy an external zip drive, or a 2nd hard drive. It'll be well worth the investment. Now for some of the smaller sites, well heck find a way to print out at least once every couple of weeks the database figures and names. A question to you webmasters, isn't there a way to do this? Surely these programs come with compatible usage admin areas where you can run any number of reports for your own tracking? If not, start asking why not. It's always a good thing to have an actual full copy of your entire program somehow on paper. Every two weeks or once a month at the least.

Now yes, I realize for the large proggies, that's more paper than you want to deal with, but at least some kind of printout should be available to you???

Just some suggestions. I DO love this industry for the most part, and it's helped me give a little back over the years to some good folk. And for the most part, there are some really tremendous people running them and I care deeply for them and wish them every success, and am very happy to be a member in their programs. I'm also finding some very nice people here in the forum and I honestly feel for them, and care about them, too.

Not every webbie is bad, not every member is a cheater, and not every program is a scam. We do know this, and for the most part, support each of these programs to the best of our ability, and will even defend to the highest those who've gained our trust and loyalty.

This thread has turned out to be a good one. And the answers honest and inciteful and from the heart and soul of each of us.

Nods in peace to each of you.

*nods in peace to sooozie*

LOL hon, I know you were not flaming nor trying to flame. I only wanted to give everyone some insite into the "real" paid to read world. Like RU said, it is not all cut and dry. Running one of these programs is an eye opener!

We webmasters appreciate any and all useful ideas. And we especially love hearing our members opinions and so forth. It's how we know what you like/dislike.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and ideas. And I hope everyone who reads this thread will have a bit better understanding of what goes on behind the scenes and sees being a webmaster is a tough job! And I hope everyone has a renewed "respect" for those who truely deserve it!

I must say this is one of the best theads I have read in a while. I also know that some of the hosts.....have started to do full back ups weekly of thier clients sites....Mine does and I have well.....a few sites LOL.....

Since the big hacking in january I think alot of people are now taking extra procautions

and advice to any new webbies......If you arent sure you are doing something right...or have a question.....dont be shy ask someone....we were all there at one point and you dont learn if you dont ask

well i for one thank all the webmasters who posted as just a member of sites it's very hard to understand the things that happen. so i have a much better understanding now. and i can see what webmasters i seriously respect. i have a sort of rule when i'm a member of a program too and that is when i email a program with a legitimate question if they don't answer me in a resonable time i lose faith. so thank you all for the answers and i hope many members read this thread and understand better too.

Well I know everyone hates CAC sites BUT if I can say one thing that I learned by having a CAC script was to back up daily and I still do everyday (except on VERY rare occassions) and my site has been online 1 year next month. Thats alot of back ups..LOL

But I agree EVERY WB should back up all their sites (depending if it contains data that changes daily) DAILY. Believe me I know it stinks I have dial up and there is NO way I could download the data for the 1800+ members of SearchBotz (alot more data saved then in a PTR). So I came up with another solution. I had modifications done to the script to be able to cut and paste ALL the members earnings heaven forbid ::knocking on wood:: anything should happen. At least I would have record of all their earnings.

Sometimes members might not be aware of what some webmasters do to make sure the data is safe. Some like myself even spend $$ to have extra precautions in place. I have been on both sides. I as a WB have lost data on my sites and as a member of other sites have lost all my downline and earnings

I guess I hold WBs to the same standard I have...back up daily!

BUT if for some reason they cant fix my account and offer something reasonable to compensate me I am cool with that...I mean what good does it do to rant and rave etc etc...I value my sanity and health more then that

lady_k
Glad we could help "shed some light" as that is what it's all about I hope others read and understand better too. You started this thread whith a very valid question; when is it the webmasters responsability? Well, the answer is always. But things happen even to us good webmasters who do everything by the book. I am so glad we were all able to give you and other members a better understanding of this.

DGE....you said it! BACK UP!! Can't stess it enough. I figure, too, if I can do it then all webmasters can or atleast find some way of having a copy of thier members earnings and so forth. No one is above the other; it is equal grounds out here.

Jaz...I agree; this is one of the best threads I have read in along time. It's nice that an upset member posted and we all came and posted here not attacking her but offering insite instead. Job well done It's nice to see everyone didn't attack or take anything as attack; instead we had a "discussion" with no bashing.....a rarity nowadays.

Again, I hope this helps everyone; members and webmasters. I hope members get a better idea of what we do and webmaster get a better idea of how members feel and how frustrated they are........an eye opener for all of us!

A good ending to a "semi-complaint" thread, I'd say. And webbies, y'all did a good job. Interaction and understanding. Goes a long, long way.

Hat's off to y'all.

~~Susy

Thanks susy~~ We do try to do our best

I must say, this has been quite an informative thread. It's given me insights and some ideas into the backups question.

I'm reminded of an experience I had in a previous job when I was doing a lot of COBOL programming. I was sitting at my terminal one night, deleting old/unneeded files. The file management program, of course, required you to confirm each delete (Are you sure? Yes), but if you've ever done this sort of thing on a large scale you know how easy it is to fall into a rhythm.

Well, I deleted one particular file and then (10 seconds too late) realized I had just deleted my source library, containing I can't even remember how many 10s of thousands of lines of code. At times like that you just stare at the screen for a bit, wondering how the heck you could be so dumb. Needless to say, I was not a happy camper.

I had actually been a good boy and had a monthly batch job in production to back up my files to magnetic tape (and if you understand exactly what that means, don't let on how far back that dates me ). I think I ended up only having to re-input a week or so worth of work from my printouts, but it was definintely an experience I'll never forget.

Stuff happens and all of us need to deal with it as calmly as possible, it seems to me.

Bullet

p.s. Actually, one thing that crossed my mind reading this thread: Is there any way to determine whether the backups that you have are good (or if they're corrupted) without actually loading it into your database? Might there be any way to do a test upload (assuming you have a fast connection, of course), perhaps using sub-domains, or a test directory on your server?

LOL Bullet......It is nice to see we aren't the only ones! And I too have experienced the old "stare at the screen and say to myself how stupid can you be"!!! But it happens, we deal with it and , thank God, life does go on.


As far as testing, that would require setting up a database in mysql and it would take up a lot of room. I realy don't know of any other way to test your back up. Except open it and look at it. Then there are still no quarantees when you upload. That is why when I back up I don't over write. I make a fresh back up each time. Cause you just never know.....

Thanks for sharing your story.....

Ok I had an example today at DividendMails and this is how it worked out

A member emailed me very politely asking why her account was deleted. I always have back ups etc so I went back to my most recent back up and found her account had been hit by the CAC bug so it was entirely blank.

I went back to the month before same thing...so in other words I didnt have any back ups of her account to reinstate it. So I asked her to resign up then email me back when she was done etc. But here is the good part. I told her i would have to rely on her honesty to let me know what she believes her earnings were the last time she checked. She told me and was honest (she said $2.45 or something like that). I then credited her account $3 and told her to send me an ad which I would send out for free (paid) for her trouble

It all worked out nicely...she was grateful. I guess my point is had she been rude obnoxious and demanding I am not quite sure it would have ended so nicely. I would have credited her account NO doubt about that ...but as for extra $$ and a free paid ad I doubt it

It pays to be calm and polite when dealing with a problem I believe

agreed, very much so!

I must say members have been 99% supportive and behind me. I have faith it will all come out just fine! This has been a good thread and very imformative!

ty amy for adjusting my account and i know you'll figure out the referral problem. i am happy to staywith a webmistress who stays on top of things even when it gets to be rough waters.

No problem I am working my way through the dl builders now putting people back in order.

8 pages at this dl thread alone...whew! lol

8 pages?? OMG!

Hi,

Yes, I asked a friend who owns a GPTR if a back-up could be corrupted and the answer wasd yes. When I asked what to do about it, that webmaster said that for every back up she made, she opened it and checked if everyone was there ... big job with the huge membership the site has but best test there is, better safe than sorry ;-)

Sophie