Right, firstly I fully understand WM's desire to weed out any non English speaking users from their programs, and YES we advertisers like to know that users are at least reading parts of the adverts we write out.

But this latest ploy by CheeChongClicks (albeit not in practise yet) is taking it a bit too far.



Right, basically what it means is, every email we get off them has not only got to be fully read, we have to sit there, and literally count the words in each advert. In the above example, you have to click on the link with the 56th word in the advert!

If you click the wrong link, you will get money actually deducted from your account???

ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS and in my view, is just part of a growing trend in WM's trying their utmost to take earnings off us and keep it themselves. To take earnings off someone, that "may" have mistakenly clicked the wrong link is scandelous, why not just have it so if the wrong link is clicked, you don't get credit for "that" email.

Get real will you WM's?

This is just getting beyond a joke, lets not forget you are paying us pennies and not dollars/pounds, etc for these advert!

If this trend grows, it will soon see us sittting there, counting words on the exact same adverts for 1/4 of a cent, etc!

I know I'll get the usual backlash from the WM's that are using this ploy, but I don't care and I can say now, that if this trend increases, my time as a email reader will be no more, I will quit any of the sites that use this ridiculous ploy.

As I have said GET REAL we are paid at times, a fraction of a cent to read these emails, to expect us to sit there and literally count words in adverts is a JOKE!

YOU ARE the WM's, its YOUR responsibility to find out if users are non-English speaking, not OURS!

ALthough I "Do" read 90% of the emails sent to me, f****d if I'm gonna start sitting there and counting words for 1/4 of a cent (which in my money is a 1/6th of a penny) and I know for a fact, that from time to time, I and everyone else for that matter "will" click the wrong link. This could mean an account that a person has spent hours of reading, clicking and plenty of dollars promoting, could vanish.

I guess you can also delete the mail, that is what I would do .... too bad for advertisers' click thru rate but if I want to play riddles etc.... I know funnier places than counting words in my mailbox .... ;-)

Sophie

I gotta agree with you on this one.
Though trying to get members to read the advertisers messages is always a concern and a challenge for WMs, I really don't think this is the solution.
Folks would be to busy counting words to read them, and I am not going to do it .
And I am surely not going to ask my members to do it.

Exactly Sophie

Do these WM's think we are that desperate to read/count/click these emails for fractions of cents?

Some of them want to sit down and take a reality check!

A JOKE if you ask me and as you say, I know of a lot more fun things to do with my time!

Exactly my thoughts

It would just be a case of

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, ah theres my word

Click 10

delete!!!

Is that telling the WM this person is reading the email?

Nope

I agree thats over doing it

I do English tests at my site

but they are clearly labled ENGLISH TEST

no trick or anything and have about 3 warnings they are there

I really like Cheechongclicks, but I'm not counting words to ensure I click the link.
Unfortunately, I think the majority of the folks will agree and the clickthru rate will go down the tubes.
Too bad, cheechong really does have a great program.

Well I was irrate when I got those emails too. I'm not going to count and click. And they must've got lots of complaints already, as I got another email saying, they are scrapping that idea. GOOD. Looks like no more counting words in the emails, at least for now

daniel

I just recently joined this program, but when I got that email, I went ahead and tried to see how much of a pain this was going to be. I clicked the wrong link in one of the "real" emails because I counted the ad text and not the program name. This was just too much for me as I have too much to do throughout my day for counting words. From my understanding this process has been removed, but I still deleted my account. I can understand needing to change terms to weed out cheaters and such, but I really don't enjoy feeling like a yoyo being bounced back and forth because of constant term changes of such a drastic nature.

totally agree with you wvufan. I just joined cheechongclicks and what I've seen so far, it's going to go on my quit list.

They should have QUIZ ads. A program called readthemwell has used them. There are 3 questions with multiple choice or true/false answers. Without going into trick questions, this is an easy way to determine that a member has read (or skimmed) the ad.

For those who like partial credit: For a 1/2 cent ad - get 1/10 for each right answer and 1/5 if you get all answers right... :lol

:ph34r:

I just joined a few days ago so it's no loss for me to drop this one. To bad I really thought I was going to like it, but I don't have the time to be looking for traps in my e-mail.

May I know what makes you think CheeChongClicks is a great program?
Please,I need your comment before I make up my mind to set the final terms for this program.
I am also sick of changing terms!

Chee Chong

CheeChong... that's the most stupid thing I have ever seen in the GPT industry. This will not make people read the ads, it will only make them count the words!

I know it is my mistake.
Just happen to get this stupid idea from nowhere

or delete thier accounts.

Looks like people in gptr industry are very sensitive.
They can only see the current moment,and not prepared to request for any changes or voice out their opinions or wait if there would be any changes.
.All they will do are just delete their accounts and wait for good things to happen,and then they will join.

That's exactly what you want, don't you? You want us to delete our accounts and let you have our earnings.

I don't think it's a question of being sensitive. I waited to join your program until I knew I had enough time to do right by it. If I'm going to have to worry about booby traps in my e-mail I personally won't ever have the time for it.

If I choose your idea to rob your earnings,then I would have made the second stupidest mistake of my life

If I want your earnings,I would just close my program and run off with it.

Just think of it yourself:
I force you to quit,okay I got your earnings.
But I got less members,then less ads come in.
Then more people quit too because of no ads to click.
In the end I would have no members and have to close business.
And finally I got your earnings to keep.

This way of robbing your money takes too long and far more too complicated.
Exactly the same complicated way which I had came up with for counting words.I hope you don't commit the same mistake which I have done.

Chee Chong

When is the time you would feel you could do right by it.

Also,if I want to rob members' earnings,why would I have it as a trial.
I could have just make it a real one.
That would make people quit even faster,isn't it?

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to do.

What's the reason behind you wanting to change the terms in the first place? Are people not staying long enough at the websites of the advertisers? Are people not reading English?

In other words, why are you making the changes? To accomplish what?

I think if members understood (unless I'm the only one that doesn't, if so I'm sorry!:)) what you wanted, we might be able to help you formulate some better ideas that will be beneficial to all.

~ Ambrie ~

I have nothing personally against the program. The thing that got me was having to sit and count the words. I have to admit, while trying to keep track of the word count, I completely forgot what the darned ad was for. lol

I enjoyed it until this morning, and that's when I cancelled my account. I like the higher paying links. Yes, there are fewer emails than those with lower paying links, but that did not bother me at all. I would rather make 3cents with one link, than click 10 different emails end up with 1 cent. I'll be more than happy to sign up again once the terms are set to something reasonable as far as keeping cheaters and nonreaders in check. I kind of like the quiz ad idea. I'm a member of RTW also, and the quiz ads don't bother me in the least. Makes it kind of fun, IMO.

Just a few suggestions...
Making hoops for members to jump through tends to lose member support. without member support your advertisers will not be happy
For example the scripts allow you to set percentage of activity. You may want to consider that instead of a personal click through rate. A personal click through of 5.00 is high, as well, it really takes any incentive out of promoting you.
Yours is one of the programs i do not promote, along with luckyearners, mail4cash, and letterwealth, and i will tell you why. (All great programs btw except for one major point)
Even if I am 100% active (and i try to be) I have too many referrals to ever cashout all I have earned. EVER.
Why would i spend time and money promoting a program that I cannot get the earnings from my referrals?
It does not matter if referral % is 100% down 1000 levels, with a 2.50, 5.00 personal click through to get X amount of money, once you have a certain amout of referrals, you will not, CANNOT earn from them.
Z-cash had that as well, BUT you get ALL your earnings once you have that personal click through, doable.
As a minx of a friend says:
"If you want my gravy, pepper my ragout."
(err can anyone explain what that means btw?)

Personally I would rather our members click a link because they are interested in the offer, not because they "have" to. Advertisers like actual results, it helps them not at all to have 5000 clicks if no one took advantage of their offer.

Jut some thoughts, really

Hi everyone,

I joined CheeChongClicks Dec.30,2002 and have already reached my personal clicks of over $5.00 this month.
I enjoyed going to the site and clicking on the banners and ads....now there is very little there. Sometimes a member does not get all the email that is sent and this way is ensured of a least a chance of seeing the ads. Sometimes I join and sometimes I don't. There are may reason for this,
... already a member ....do not like the terms.....payout to high......you must wait to long to receive payment....

I like the 3 cents per link....tried the email counting the words.....got it right......but I would not do emails like this
for any amount of money......glad it is no longer valid.
I believe the best way is the timed counter on the ads.

Ok guys, I myself thought the counting was a bit ridiculas, and I understand cheech`s problem too. I am not ready to quit this program becuase I am actually making some mon ey here and he is TRYING to find a good acurate way to do his program. maybe w/m`s shopuld send the quizes or like jay did, the if you click this link you lose 10.00 but do NOT try and trick us cause that isnt fair, jays was very plain and easy to read, and people who can read emails, if they know this will be done monthly or every 2 months then they will have no troubles , as long as they CAn read english
Cheech just added a great way to advertise, with your earnings (direct and referal earnings) I think this should go over well with people and he has asked in a recent email if people could email him with ideas, so before you quit , write him a note and tell him what you think he should/could do to make his program work, he is trying and soemtimes buisenesses have a little trouble and at least he hasnt taken our money and ran or just deleted a bunch of people and taken their money. Please give him a chance to get it running good thanks all, have a wonderful weekend!

I do admit that I may have jumped the gun on quitting this program before emailing the WM stating that I didn't agree with the counting words. I mean come'on, I'm from west virginia. I can't count on my fingers and toes and click at the same time.

I'm just a little leary about emailing WM with suggestions because I tried that once...ONCE...and got a reply that if I didn't like the way the program was that I knew how to unsubscribe and if I didn't, I could be pointed in that direction. Needless to say, I found my way to the unsubscribe screen rather quickly. lol. Guess it just depends on the WM, or what type of day they're having.

lol, how many toes ya have?
hey I believe if you write to cheech and tell him you may have been a little hasty and tell him your suggestions, and he might even reinstate you because he told us today that he isnt deleting people till things get settled so maybe you can rejoin? Yes some w/m`s have a bad day and reply curtly and then there are ones who answer the best that they can, but rember there are also members who do the same.
Good luck to ya, I myself am not opting out of this program becuase so far, it has been one of the better earners for me, and pay out isnt that unreachable have a great week.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!

LMAO

Well said Mary and I agree with you on all points.

Another problem I'm experiencing is minimum personal earnings between redemptions. There are several programs I no longer promote simply because I cannot keep up with my referrals earnings as each redemption requires a set amount of personal earnings between redemptions and each redemption pays out the minimum payout and not the total earnings. Despite being as close to 99% active as is humanely possible there isn't enough paid emails/paid2click banners for me to keep up.

Doing things this way ultimately hurts the program.

Way too many webmasters focus on clickthru ratios, when the fact of the matter is the bottom line is results. If I had 100% clickthru on my ad, it really doesn't matter if I made no sales.

hasn't cheechong already admitted his counting words idea was stupid...

i think we are on to a new topic that may need a new thread

ok time for my 2 cents LOL

To have a successful program thier must be compromises and you have to do what is in the best interest of Everyone:

The program and its ability to make a profit
The members and its ability to reach payout within a reasonable amount of time
The advertisers and its ability to have fair ad prices and good results


When you have this combination....you will have a program that will succeed. One doesnt work without the other elements.

Its a group effort and therefor when decisions are made.....it has to have all the elements considered.

At Z-cash for example...thier are some strict rules.....however the majority of them were set up from the start:

I dont like cheaters
I dont like inactives......no free rides everyone needs to do their part
I dont like unhappy advertisers


So........I made a low payout, however you need to have X amount of personal clickthrews to get cash out
You need to be 75% active as your downline to gain from thier money.... Why should you expect your downline to do what you are not willing to do yourself

I also do random English test....as the scripts allow you to see Each member who clicked the link......Out of 4400+ Members.....not one English Test has had more than 300 clicks.

These elements all balanced make an even playing ground for everyone.

Also..........some people often get members and advertisers mixed up.....Members opted in to read ads from advertisers and visit thier sites......no where did it say.....you need to count words.....check spelling and spend 5 Mintues for 1 Cent.....

Counting words will not improve advertisers results....or flush out those who do not speak English.......

What about those many members who have visiual disabilites.....or who are not perfect at the English Language.....or those that are a bit older and thier vision is not what it use to be. or those members who have other learning disablities......that could be a very trying and frustrating task.

Even when people write ads....the point is to get in just enough information in an ad to gain interest.....so that when they visit the site they will be excited or curious on what they are going to see......To get the General Idea Before they visit the site.

The ads purpose is to give the "highlights" and most people can get the highlights from Keywords.....

I feel that thier are better ways that would make everyone happier.

You need to engage your members and make them feel part of the process....

This makes happier members...happier members make better promoters...and remember....todays member could be tomorrows advertiser

I come not to bury cheechong but to praise him. Lend me your ears.........

At least he is trying to think of a solution to that problem. An he is not so full of himself that he cannot recognise that he made a mistake. Takes a big person to say, hey my idea was dumb.

Now if he would of offered mystrey cash/points random bonuses for doing the same thing. I wonder how many would of been doing it hummming a happy tune. Say if the top bonuses were .25, .10, ,10, .10, .05 and so on down to .0001.

This is why I don't have a personal click-through requirement.

Remember, I'm not just a program owner, I am also a member, and I understand both sides of the issue very well.

I have my scripts configured to reward active clickers, that is, the more they click, the more they earn from their downlines.

If they build a large downline and don't click (and some have and don't), then they don't earn from their downlines.

Doesn't this seem more reasonable than requiring that a certain percentage of the earnings must be your own?

I also ask for input from my members, receive it from them, and listen to them. (My members come up with some of the greatest ideas!).

Yes that is more reasonable

Watch it!! I was born in WV ......and yes, my legs are both the same length--finally

But seriously, folks, counting words is a little far out. A simple English test is enough to weed out those who have no concept at all of the English language.

Just my .25 cents

The reason why I came with this "counting words" idea is because after making several changes in the programs,from the points system to 3 cents,I seem to have lost most advertisers.I don't have any feedback from them and I don't know why they are leaving.If I do not make a change,members may just leave if I don't send them a paid email.And I happen to think of this idea to impress the advertisers.Guess I haven't give it a thorough thought.

After this incident,I know why they are leaving.
It is because I have been changing too much too often,that includes the terms and ad price.

All these changes I have been doing is to strike a balance between advertisers,me and members.

Because I thought when situations change,rules need to be changed to suit the situations.But I guessed people in gptr industry just aren't for it.
The message I get is:If you want to change rules,start a new program.

I have been hesitating on offering gold memberships because I don't understand how they work.How do Tasias profit by offering such memberships?Also,I hesitated on offering startpages because I've yet to figure out how they work profitably?

I do have a min click rate....but I think 30 cents is reasonable when I sent out about $2.00+ of personal click threws or more a month.


Hopefully he will figure out what is best for his program and take some of the members feedback into consideration to make it a win win situation for all

The percentage of activity part of my mec scripts does not work.
If you remember,when I started this program,I set the terms to :
Members must be at least 50% active as their referrals to earn anything from them.That's the condition I am able to offer 30% in direct earnings.
(I guessed nobody took note of this.)
But unfortunately the percentage of activity part of my mec scripts doesn't work,so a lot of members are seeing an unbelievable rate of increase in their referral earnings even though they have not met the 50% requirement.
Mind you,it is 0.6 cents per referral click.Do you offer that much with the ad price I am offering?($6 for 1000 Paid E-mails at 2 cents)
I have tried to get help from John,but to no avail.
(my vacation settings part is not working too.)
The first person I pay has $5 in direct earnings and $50 in referral earnings with just 100 referrals alone.That is during the high period where everyone's referral earnings is increasing like crazy.
I have endured this loss until recently.
If I don't change,I may just go broke and close the program.
When you say the word "high",you are comparing it to something.
A personal click through of 5.00 is high when you get a few mails to earn daily.
A personal click through of 5.00 is low when you get a lot of mails to earn daily.
This is the same as for payouts.
You have to consider the time factor.
How difficult is it for webmasters to promote a program?
And how much referral earnings you are getting?
You yourself know that a gptr program depends more on clicks than referrals.
The ideal senario is when people signed up by themselves without being referred by anyone.This way,you save the referral earnings.
But not possible because most of the time you need existing members to get new members.
But at the same time,you can't offer too much referral earnings.
All in all,you have to strike a balance.

gpt industry needs clickthrus to grow strong,not referrals.

30 CENTS is reasonable.
30 PERCENT is unreasonable if you have a large downline.

No you cannot price your advertising like that and be able to pay people what they have earned, much less referral earnings. Advertsing MUST MUST cover what it costs you to send it.



Again, if you are pricing your advertising WITH referral earnings in mind there is not a problem. Taking that from your members to make up for not pricing your product correctly is not the way to go. IF you have to have the 5.00 min, an idea might be to allow FULL cashout.

The "entire" idea of affiliate programs is you earn for promoting the site.
Yes a balance is needed. But "clicks" are not the be all end all goal here, happy advertisers, happy members, a program that grows.
Honestly I am "not" telling you how to run your program, simply telling you my views, my experince in the matter.
And do remember what Jazmyni says about members becoming advertisers. You CANNOT depend on members advertising, but many many do.

agree on your points 100%
strike a balance between those 3 factors

Guess I should give a thorough thought on the ad price.

Come up with a formula that works for you for your ad prices......

You need to take into consideration Value of link..referral % and click threw rate.....

Just to break even an ad to 100 paying 1 cent....if the downline % totals 50% is like $1.50 JUST TO break Even.....

however......if not everyeone clickes....then it balances out


Also suggestions.........belive it or not you need to spend money to make money in some cases...... I have had a few crazy contests where I have given away advertisers......even if its only 100 PTC banners...... and out of all the advertiseing I have GIVEN away.....I can tell you that....over 60% of them who WON free advertising.....later BOUGHT some later

Also not just ebay but other auctions sites....are visited by MILLIONS of people....non members...who all have advertising needs. I have sold MANY MANY banner impressions......some at Crazy prices......to people who have no idea of the get paid to world....

Remember the internet is like television......its for entertainment and is basically ONE big advertisement.........as I am sure if you look around where you live their are business that operate online or have webpages......................GO tell them why they should advertise with you.

Look at the worlds population and how many members are in each program......there are still TONS and TONS of people out there that we have not got addicted to these programs yet LOL.......we just need to be creative and aggressive and go get them

Just passing through reading the insanity

Mary and Dana...geezzzzzzz y'all got it goin' on girls LMAO

This is what SOME of us have been saying all along, you bought the program, isn't is up to you to FIND the advertisers? Yes, membership will buy...IF they've been paid from someone, but don't ever, ever, ever count on that aspect. And don't count on our doing searches just to keep your sites going, either.

Ok, I think I've given hmmmmm about .000006 PTS. of my thoughts now coffee time lol

[quote=freeandeasy,Mar 27 2003, 10:15 PM][/QUOTE]
30 CENTS is reasonable.
30 PERCENT is unreasonable if you have a large downline.[/quote]
Ok, maybe I don't understand the percentage thing completely, but the way that I undrestand it is that if an owner sends out 10 emails in a week, you have to click on 3 of them to be paid by your downline. I don't think that this is unreasonable at all. In fact, I think that requirement is a good one and may stop those people that have large downlines getting paid for no work at all.

Just my .002 cents.

[quote=mrbike,Mar 29 2003, 01:11 AM][QUOTE=freeandeasy,Mar 27 2003, 10:15 PM][/QUOTE]
30 CENTS is reasonable.
30 PERCENT is unreasonable if you have a large downline.[/QUOTE]
Ok, maybe I don't understand the percentage thing completely, but the way that I undrestand it is that if an owner sends out 10 emails in a week, you have to click on 3 of them to be paid by your downline. I don't think that this is unreasonable at all. In fact, I think that requirement is a good one and may stop those people that have large downlines getting paid for no work at all.

Just my .002 cents.[/quote]
I think what she meant is 30% of your earings........

For example:

A program has a $5.00 Payout
You have 300 Referrals in your downline....but you need 30% of your total earnings to cash out

Your personal Earnings: $1.20
Earned form Referrals $23.00
Total $24.20

If you needed to have 30% of your earnings to cash out you would need $7.26 in personal earnings to get that......to get your money....and by the time you get that in personal earnings....well your referrals are still earning so its a vicious circle.... you will never get to the 30% of your earnigs to cash out until you tell all your downline to stop reading and clicking

I'm in that circle now and it ain't pretty