I dont see it on the frontpage. I think she moved it off, but it still in the terms.
The problem with the forced searches is that people are willing to do them. They pay better than the other type of ads and you reach payout quicker. There is this site that gives you 5 dollars in about 10 days without referrals. Its membershp has grown to well over 2000 in a very short time. Its very tempting to people who dont have referrals. The members themselves have to do something.
Full Version: Forced searches, threatened with deletion
Get Paid Forum - Get Paid Discussion > Get Paid To Programs > General Discussion : Free GPT sites and related topics
QUOTE(babystreasures @ Sep 25 2005, 12:35 PM)
Peter
[right][snapback]3911013[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]3911013[/snapback][/right]
Peter ? Is this the guy who ran Summer Searching and took over a ptr ind debt ?
Grrrr
simple, if you feel you are being forced to search, just report them quietly to their search engine, if it doesnt change, change programs..
QUOTE(butterscotch2002crf @ Dec 6 2005, 01:26 PM)
simple, if you feel you are being forced to search, just report them quietly to their search engine, if it doesnt change, change programs..
[right][snapback]4113578[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]4113578[/snapback][/right]
Not quite so simple since some of the search engines are owned by the same people forcing the searches.
I had a post here yesterday for slik300 yesterday but it seems that it has disappearred with the forum stuff going on.
The demand is still on her frontpage. Here is a screen shot.
As well as I ask are you condoning why they do it or just explaining why you think they do it? Cause just cause they earn more doesn't make it right.
I wonder if people have ever considered that if they didn't support these type of sites and gave 1/2 the support to the honest sites they do to these sites that they wouldn't make as much if not more... But guess they probably wouldn't because it seems unless they are TOLD they absolutely have to search they don't bother to be as supportive as the honest sites. hmmmmmm
Potential Solutions to Forced Search Sites:
1- Report the site to the search engines advertised at it.
2- Report the search engines advertised at it, that don't Stop, to their Feeds.
3- Report the Feeds that say 'we're looking into it', to the ppc Forums Readers.
- - -
Now, we'd Need to take a little Care here. I think it's allready been Mentioned in this thread, that we can't just go reporting se's to Feeds, without knowing for sure the Owners of the se's Are Aware their engine is running at the sham site.
The above 3 courses of action, taken in Earnest, should shut down Most of the operations currently underway. humm, did i say Should...
Well, you'll Likely have some probs with the Feeds. They hold the power, and they DO NOT like to talk about this stuff. Sorta hush hush, like the i-frame thingy ya know.?...
But if you Did want to sink a Serious Stick into the forced search sites, the above 3 in tandom ought net a pretty decent sized hole I'd assert.
It's quite simple really, you just Flip a coin, or pick one from a list, and Literally Attack It. Don't stop until it has to Shut Down, and get a new identity to try again.
As long as there is One se Left running at the thing, Keep Pounding away at it, Not just One person, Organize, what'd she call that stuffy, Oh Yeah, Delegate.
-3 should be enough I'd think.?...
-3 gpt representatives Join the forced search site:
-Document the Violations First, then post it all to gpf:
-Next, Document the signed by all 3 Notifacation of Pending Doom to the Owner of the site about to partake of thyne Rathe:
-Upon failure of the ptr Owner to change there ways, All 3 reps focus on One engine at a time, All 3 signing the notice to the se owner. One at a time, knock them down, until all that are left, are the se owners that refuse to comply.
*nasty biz, isn't it.?...
-The hard-ball engine owners, we'd have to take to the feeds themselves. One Victory Here, should go a long way in putting the fear of God into the Rest, so Document the daylights outta the thingy when it goes down.
If the above is weakening you at the knees, I'm afraid yer just not cut out for this line o work. There's Nothing Pleasent about Any 'pro-active' solution to the posed problem. There's a Very Workable Solution, it just ain't all that pretty is all.
If you Doubt me here, Ask yourself this simple ?
What REALLY Broke the unsustainables Back...
It was the Realization by Potential Clickers that they were NOT going to get Paid!!! Break Their Financial BACKS! Cut off the Food Supply, end of problem.
Be Wise, and think through your course of action, and your 'business-plan'. Your Goal, is NOT to shut down a Site, but to Shut down a 'parisite-sub-industry' of the larger ptr biz. You are going to Do This, Not by Closing Sites, but by Closing MINDS of Clickers to the opinion that there's Money in these sites for them.
That's gonna work, and it Only takes Three devoted and well organized persons to Do It. Beware, Documenting these sites is a Real Pain in the backporch, it's Time Consuming, Half the time you're logging into their 0-iframe shams as well, you Have to Do It. It's Aggrevating, for the most part Unrewarding, and sucks somewhat, but it Will Work...
MO.
1- Report the site to the search engines advertised at it.
2- Report the search engines advertised at it, that don't Stop, to their Feeds.
3- Report the Feeds that say 'we're looking into it', to the ppc Forums Readers.
- - -
Now, we'd Need to take a little Care here. I think it's allready been Mentioned in this thread, that we can't just go reporting se's to Feeds, without knowing for sure the Owners of the se's Are Aware their engine is running at the sham site.
The above 3 courses of action, taken in Earnest, should shut down Most of the operations currently underway. humm, did i say Should...
Well, you'll Likely have some probs with the Feeds. They hold the power, and they DO NOT like to talk about this stuff. Sorta hush hush, like the i-frame thingy ya know.?...
But if you Did want to sink a Serious Stick into the forced search sites, the above 3 in tandom ought net a pretty decent sized hole I'd assert.
It's quite simple really, you just Flip a coin, or pick one from a list, and Literally Attack It. Don't stop until it has to Shut Down, and get a new identity to try again.
As long as there is One se Left running at the thing, Keep Pounding away at it, Not just One person, Organize, what'd she call that stuffy, Oh Yeah, Delegate.
-3 should be enough I'd think.?...
-3 gpt representatives Join the forced search site:
-Document the Violations First, then post it all to gpf:
-Next, Document the signed by all 3 Notifacation of Pending Doom to the Owner of the site about to partake of thyne Rathe:
-Upon failure of the ptr Owner to change there ways, All 3 reps focus on One engine at a time, All 3 signing the notice to the se owner. One at a time, knock them down, until all that are left, are the se owners that refuse to comply.
*nasty biz, isn't it.?...
-The hard-ball engine owners, we'd have to take to the feeds themselves. One Victory Here, should go a long way in putting the fear of God into the Rest, so Document the daylights outta the thingy when it goes down.
If the above is weakening you at the knees, I'm afraid yer just not cut out for this line o work. There's Nothing Pleasent about Any 'pro-active' solution to the posed problem. There's a Very Workable Solution, it just ain't all that pretty is all.
If you Doubt me here, Ask yourself this simple ?
What REALLY Broke the unsustainables Back...
It was the Realization by Potential Clickers that they were NOT going to get Paid!!! Break Their Financial BACKS! Cut off the Food Supply, end of problem.
Be Wise, and think through your course of action, and your 'business-plan'. Your Goal, is NOT to shut down a Site, but to Shut down a 'parisite-sub-industry' of the larger ptr biz. You are going to Do This, Not by Closing Sites, but by Closing MINDS of Clickers to the opinion that there's Money in these sites for them.
That's gonna work, and it Only takes Three devoted and well organized persons to Do It. Beware, Documenting these sites is a Real Pain in the backporch, it's Time Consuming, Half the time you're logging into their 0-iframe shams as well, you Have to Do It. It's Aggrevating, for the most part Unrewarding, and sucks somewhat, but it Will Work...
MO.
Mo, I've joined a few of these "things" and I've reported every single violation I have found. I have yet to even get a reply from any of the SE owners. 
And those SEs are still going out full tilt, 0 iframes and all. And by the way I do NOT search for them have not done even one single second click and I get hundreds of mails. Wonder what's going to happen when I hit the request payment button? 
And those SEs are still going out full tilt, 0 iframes and all. And by the way I do NOT search for them have not done even one single second click and I get hundreds of mails. Wonder what's going to happen when I hit the request payment button?
2kids maybe an off thought here but since you most likely use your same username on sites as you do here do you think maybe you might just get paid and might not be deleted just because you can be a benefit to them?
Meaning well if we leave a few who are vocal on the forums they will say ... but we aren't being forced to search, we aren't being deleted for not following through with threads....
Maybe I am way out there on that one but with the cheating and junk going on I wouldn't put it past them. Just like sites who pay a few members when they launch the ones they know will be vocal and praise them then they never pay another penny out of their pockets. It was a way to lure the members in.
I think MO was trying to make a point you may have to hit these programs harder then reporting to the search engines .. go as far as the feeds and be persistent. If I am wrong MO please say so.
Meaning well if we leave a few who are vocal on the forums they will say ... but we aren't being forced to search, we aren't being deleted for not following through with threads....
Maybe I am way out there on that one but with the cheating and junk going on I wouldn't put it past them. Just like sites who pay a few members when they launch the ones they know will be vocal and praise them then they never pay another penny out of their pockets. It was a way to lure the members in.
I think MO was trying to make a point you may have to hit these programs harder then reporting to the search engines .. go as far as the feeds and be persistent. If I am wrong MO please say so.
QUOTE(2kids2pets @ Dec 7 2005, 06:46 AM)
Mo, I've joined a few of these "things" and I've reported every single violation I have found. I have yet to even get a reply from any of the SE owners. And those SEs are still going out full tilt, 0 iframes and all. And by the way I do NOT search for them have not done even one single second click and I get hundreds of mails. Wonder what's going to happen when I hit the request payment button?
[right][snapback]4113824[/snapback][/right]
And those SEs are still going out full tilt, 0 iframes and all. And by the way I do NOT search for them have not done even one single second click and I get hundreds of mails. Wonder what's going to happen when I hit the request payment button? [right][snapback]4113824[/snapback][/right]
and you're not the Only one to have reported these shams either.
But Alone, it's of little value I think.
We NEED at least 3 I think. Then we can post the Names of the ptr sites, And the names of the SE's as well, and Expose them, that's the first step.
Then we hit the feeds...
btw, tanks for reporting them.
MO.
oh and MO I forgot to say something here he he .. You said join these sites. Well I will tell you this.. I did join one site I suspected of forcing searches but doing it subtly in fact I have a couple I have joined. Used my regular email and another username. All info was correct. And got deleted on two of the sites. One my username was not posted in their forum like anyone else they have deleted and when I went to login the message stated you had bad interest categories check your account has been deleted. Now mind you I never have checked a bad interest category but for one time and it was some weird thing going on with the script and the PO contacted me. And I would not with a site I am trying to verify info on have selected bad categories because it would be obivous. So the problem being even when I want to check some of the sites I have been deleted on 3. Based on either my ip or my email. Not my username or my info as I don't think many of thse sites unless they know me would know my first last name and where i reside.
So it makes it hard to get info when I can't even investigate. So I depend on members or others to send me info and I have ways of confirming it is not just someone complaining to me about a site that it is actually a site with search issues.
So it makes it hard to get info when I can't even investigate. So I depend on members or others to send me info and I have ways of confirming it is not just someone complaining to me about a site that it is actually a site with search issues.
QUOTE(priestes @ Dec 7 2005, 06:54 AM)
2kids maybe an off thought here but since you most likely use your same username on sites as you do here do you think maybe you might just get paid and might not be deleted just because you can be a benefit to them?
Meaning well if we leave a few who are vocal on the forums they will say ... but we aren't being forced to search, we aren't being deleted for not following through with threads....
Maybe I am way out there on that one but with the cheating and junk going on I wouldn't put it past them. Just like sites who pay a few members when they launch the ones they know will be vocal and praise them then they never pay another penny out of their pockets. It was a way to lure the members in.
I think MO was trying to make a point you may have to hit these programs harder then reporting to the search engines .. go as far as the feeds and be persistent. If I am wrong MO please say so.
[right][snapback]4113833[/snapback][/right]
Meaning well if we leave a few who are vocal on the forums they will say ... but we aren't being forced to search, we aren't being deleted for not following through with threads....
Maybe I am way out there on that one but with the cheating and junk going on I wouldn't put it past them. Just like sites who pay a few members when they launch the ones they know will be vocal and praise them then they never pay another penny out of their pockets. It was a way to lure the members in.
I think MO was trying to make a point you may have to hit these programs harder then reporting to the search engines .. go as far as the feeds and be persistent. If I am wrong MO please say so.
[right][snapback]4113833[/snapback][/right]
No, of course you're not wrong.
There's a Good Buck in this sham for them, same as the 0-iframer, so they'll go to great lengths to perserve that. So the ptr biz just goes the same mile, and zaps them.
btw: when I join one of these things, I use a junk freebie email addy, and a username like sally or roselitta49 or something catchy. Then I can post to gpf that I'm IN
and the sap running the sham has to get my ip to Find me.MO.
QUOTE(priestes @ Dec 6 2005, 06:54 PM)
2kids maybe an off thought here but since you most likely use your same username on sites as you do here do you think maybe you might just get paid and might not be deleted just because you can be a benefit to them?
Meaning well if we leave a few who are vocal on the forums they will say ... but we aren't being forced to search, we aren't being deleted for not following through with threads....
Maybe I am way out there on that one but with the cheating and junk going on I wouldn't put it past them. Just like sites who pay a few members when they launch the ones they know will be vocal and praise them then they never pay another penny out of their pockets. It was a way to lure the members in.
I think MO was trying to make a point you may have to hit these programs harder then reporting to the search engines .. go as far as the feeds and be persistent. If I am wrong MO please say so.
[right][snapback]4113833[/snapback][/right]
Meaning well if we leave a few who are vocal on the forums they will say ... but we aren't being forced to search, we aren't being deleted for not following through with threads....
Maybe I am way out there on that one but with the cheating and junk going on I wouldn't put it past them. Just like sites who pay a few members when they launch the ones they know will be vocal and praise them then they never pay another penny out of their pockets. It was a way to lure the members in.
I think MO was trying to make a point you may have to hit these programs harder then reporting to the search engines .. go as far as the feeds and be persistent. If I am wrong MO please say so.
[right][snapback]4113833[/snapback][/right]
I used my regular usename on one program as a control. The rest have a totally different username and e-mail addy. I'm sure they can compare IP addresses since they seem to be a cartel, but I doubt they'd do that much work just to see who I am.
QUOTE(priestes @ Dec 7 2005, 07:01 AM)
oh and MO I forgot to say something here he he .. You said join these sites. Well I will tell you this.. I did join one site I suspected of forcing searches but doing it subtly in fact I have a couple I have joined. Used my regular email and another username. All info was correct. And got deleted on two of the sites. One my username was not posted in their forum like anyone else they have deleted and when I went to login the message stated you had bad interest categories check your account has been deleted. Now mind you I never have checked a bad interest category but for one time and it was some weird thing going on with the script and the PO contacted me. And I would not with a site I am trying to verify info on have selected bad categories because it would be obivous. So the problem being even when I want to check some of the sites I have been deleted on 3. Based on either my ip or my email. Not my username or my info as I don't think many of thse sites unless they know me would know my first last name and where i reside.
So it makes it hard to get info when I can't even investigate. So I depend on members or others to send me info and I have ways of confirming it is not just someone complaining to me about a site that it is actually a site with search issues.
[right][snapback]4113847[/snapback][/right]
So it makes it hard to get info when I can't even investigate. So I depend on members or others to send me info and I have ways of confirming it is not just someone complaining to me about a site that it is actually a site with search issues.
[right][snapback]4113847[/snapback][/right]
Good Points. Yeah, rofl, deletion is a par for the course in the 'investigative' end, eek, of this work.
There are lots here I'm sure, that would go in annon for us in the toughest to crack sites.
They can 'monitor' us here in gpf, and find out who the 'enemy' is, as it were, but it'll do them little good, when we quietly get someone to slip in via a ref link, and start doing valids for a few days, that'll work just fine...
Another key issue, is that WE, NEED Credibility!
That's why I suggest at least 3 Working the Same Site, and the Same Time, and on the Same Engines Together. that's the way to handle this.
MO.
QUOTE(2kids2pets @ Dec 7 2005, 07:08 AM)
...I'm sure they can compare IP addresses since they seem to be a cartel, but I doubt they'd do that much work just to see who I am.
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[right][snapback]4113857[/snapback][/right]
I believe you are Correct here, there Is some 'organization' here, sorta the old china and india connection thingy a couple of years back type of thingy. Some of that hanging over to this day in the remnents of the unsustainables I'd suggest, not a problem we can't overcome.
MO.
QUOTE(priestes @ Dec 6 2005, 06:29 PM)
Not quite so simple since some of the search engines are owned by the same people forcing the searches.
I had a post here yesterday for slik300 yesterday but it seems that it has disappearred with the forum stuff going on.
The demand is still on her frontpage. Here is a screen shot.
As well as I ask are you condoning why they do it or just explaining why you think they do it? Cause just cause they earn more doesn't make it right.
I wonder if people have ever considered that if they didn't support these type of sites and gave 1/2 the support to the honest sites they do to these sites that they wouldn't make as much if not more... But guess they probably wouldn't because it seems unless they are TOLD they absolutely have to search they don't bother to be as supportive as the honest sites. hmmmmmm
[right][snapback]4113775[/snapback][/right]
I had a post here yesterday for slik300 yesterday but it seems that it has disappearred with the forum stuff going on.
The demand is still on her frontpage. Here is a screen shot.
As well as I ask are you condoning why they do it or just explaining why you think they do it? Cause just cause they earn more doesn't make it right.
I wonder if people have ever considered that if they didn't support these type of sites and gave 1/2 the support to the honest sites they do to these sites that they wouldn't make as much if not more... But guess they probably wouldn't because it seems unless they are TOLD they absolutely have to search they don't bother to be as supportive as the honest sites. hmmmmmm
[right][snapback]4113775[/snapback][/right]
Lol. I dont condone it. I believe it wont stop though. People will always do the searches for the amount of money they are getting for it. Sadly. Some of the search engines dont do anything.
At the beginning of this year, it somewhat was dying, because of the popularity of autosurfs. All of sudden, in these last two months, it has picked up with more of these sites opening every week.
Oh by the way, i finally see the demands on the site.
I am a member of two of the sham sites just to do some information gathering. Priestes, I will PM you about it later. It seems to me that:
1. The 0 framer is an XML-user of a 2nd or 3rd tier site that has gotten himself a bit of SE code. The code is relatively cheap and the 0 framer has probably made his money back.
2. The site that I am a member of, uses their own SE about 4th tier, but hey a .005 cents is .005 cents! Mailing the same portal face with different SE names. Again, code is cheap.
3. The site that I am a member of has actually created code on one of their portals so they can see if you are actually searching and clicking results. No clicky - No pay!!
I think at this point, they are so far down in the Feed train, you will not get to the big guys that hold the cards. What is needed is to determine the trail, there are several Tier 2 SEs that are owned by people that care. Hey, that's ME!!!
While banning promotions and listing these shammers is good as MO says it will not be enough....anyone remember how long it took to shut down the Search Swap here at GPF??
1. The 0 framer is an XML-user of a 2nd or 3rd tier site that has gotten himself a bit of SE code. The code is relatively cheap and the 0 framer has probably made his money back.
2. The site that I am a member of, uses their own SE about 4th tier, but hey a .005 cents is .005 cents! Mailing the same portal face with different SE names. Again, code is cheap.
3. The site that I am a member of has actually created code on one of their portals so they can see if you are actually searching and clicking results. No clicky - No pay!!
I think at this point, they are so far down in the Feed train, you will not get to the big guys that hold the cards. What is needed is to determine the trail, there are several Tier 2 SEs that are owned by people that care. Hey, that's ME!!!
While banning promotions and listing these shammers is good as MO says it will not be enough....anyone remember how long it took to shut down the Search Swap here at GPF??
QUOTE(ReferYou @ Dec 6 2005, 03:56 PM)
I am a member of two of the sham sites just to do some information gathering. Priestes, I will PM you about it later. It seems to me that:
1. The 0 framer is an XML-user of a 2nd or 3rd tier site that has gotten himself a bit of SE code. The code is relatively cheap and the 0 framer has probably made his money back.
2. The site that I am a member of, uses their own SE about 4th tier, but hey a .005 cents is .005 cents! Mailing the same portal face with different SE names. Again, code is cheap.
3. The site that I am a member of has actually created code on one of their portals so they can see if you are actually searching and clicking results. No clicky - No pay!!
I think at this point, they are so far down in the Feed train, you will not get to the big guys that hold the cards. What is needed is to determine the trail, there are several Tier 2 SEs that are owned by people that care. Hey, that's ME!!!
While banning promotions and listing these shammers is good as MO says it will not be enough....anyone remember how long it took to shut down the Search Swap here at GPF??
[right][snapback]4113968[/snapback][/right]
1. The 0 framer is an XML-user of a 2nd or 3rd tier site that has gotten himself a bit of SE code. The code is relatively cheap and the 0 framer has probably made his money back.
2. The site that I am a member of, uses their own SE about 4th tier, but hey a .005 cents is .005 cents! Mailing the same portal face with different SE names. Again, code is cheap.
3. The site that I am a member of has actually created code on one of their portals so they can see if you are actually searching and clicking results. No clicky - No pay!!
I think at this point, they are so far down in the Feed train, you will not get to the big guys that hold the cards. What is needed is to determine the trail, there are several Tier 2 SEs that are owned by people that care. Hey, that's ME!!!
While banning promotions and listing these shammers is good as MO says it will not be enough....anyone remember how long it took to shut down the Search Swap here at GPF??
[right][snapback]4113968[/snapback][/right]
Sure hope as tired as I am I didn't say all Search engines. I was using the means of stating many of the search engines are owned by these sites forcing searches or are friends with the search engine owner so it is difficult to get anything from the lower tier search engines. I know there are a few of you trying to do something and have put a stop to them promoting your engines.
ReferYou waiting to hear from you...
I know it will not stop with some of us banning and publically posting but we have to start somewhere. MO hopefully some of us will make a dent and yes ReferYou I do remember how long that took.
I am sorry folks to put a damper on your cash cows but what is going on is plain wrong with forced searches and 0 iframes. It has got to stop someplace.
Amity-cash the one I know that threateaning the members badly
Got to love how blantant sites are getting... Here is a site
Merrygetcash
On the frontpage
Payout AT $5, ($1 Auto payout for active searcher)
and further down
Something you need to know : How many paid mails you will receive depend on how active you are. Please be a active searcher to support our ad. If you didn't do valid click, we will not send any mail for you. Remember.
Merrygetcash
On the frontpage
Payout AT $5, ($1 Auto payout for active searcher)
and further down
Something you need to know : How many paid mails you will receive depend on how active you are. Please be a active searcher to support our ad. If you didn't do valid click, we will not send any mail for you. Remember.
QUOTE(priestes @ Dec 7 2005, 11:29 AM)
I wonder if people have ever considered that if they didn't support these type of sites and gave 1/2 the support to the honest sites they do to these sites that they wouldn't make as much if not more... But guess they probably wouldn't because it seems unless they are TOLD they absolutely have to search they don't bother to be as supportive as the honest sites. hmmmmmm
[right][snapback]4113775[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]4113775[/snapback][/right]
Yes lots of people wonder the same thing, even me... however at this end of the scale - where you are trying to educate the members... this is massive. Not saying it doesn't work because it can and does. Something still needs to be implemented at an 'easier' point.
Conducting you're own investigation is cool too, I would probably forward complaints to the Feed when it can be tracked that is.
My preference though, is that Program Owners didn't promote the sale of search advertising at all. I feel like a parrot but how PTR has turned a great webmaster revenue tool into this is disappointing...
Ooh wee, here we go this is what I was talking about. I read the whole thread... more like read/skimmed lol.
May as well add LowermainlandPTR and RealCashPTR to the list.
Yes I DO have proof, ask priestes. I can post emails here later though. Or just PM me.
May as well add LowermainlandPTR and RealCashPTR to the list.
Yes I DO have proof, ask priestes. I can post emails here later though. Or just PM me.
QUOTE(hiredgoon @ Dec 7 2005, 09:49 AM)
Yes lots of people wonder the same thing, even me... however at this end of the scale - where you are trying to educate the members... this is massive. Not saying it doesn't work because it can and does. Something still needs to be implemented at an 'easier' point.
Conducting you're own investigation is cool too, I would probably forward complaints to the Feed when it can be tracked that is.
My preference though, is that Program Owners didn't promote the sale of search advertising at all. I feel like a parrot but how PTR has turned a great webmaster revenue tool into this is disappointing...
[right][snapback]4114212[/snapback][/right]
Conducting you're own investigation is cool too, I would probably forward complaints to the Feed when it can be tracked that is.
My preference though, is that Program Owners didn't promote the sale of search advertising at all. I feel like a parrot but how PTR has turned a great webmaster revenue tool into this is disappointing...
[right][snapback]4114212[/snapback][/right]
Those that know me, know I fully Agree with you.
However...
Anything, is Better than what is Happening right now. The forced search thing is getting Soooo outta hand, that Frankly, my Secret Plan, (if I were to have one at this juncture), would be to Encourage it, and Help it to thrive.
That, I think, and after Substantial Contemplation on the matter), is Likely the Shortest Route, to the Real end Goal, of having ptr Banned Entirely.
Having Said all that, I don't think it's Ready for That, and I simply don't know if it would survive, at least Not as we know it Today.
Now, one can well assert that a Good thing perhaps, but none the less, a Lot of Innocent Victums is What you Wind up with in that senerio, not something I care to be the Instigator Of.
A 'Transitional' Solution, I Remain Convinced, IS the way to go.
We NEED, to Educate, to Train, to Tutor on the ways of a Better Way to Earn, than Leaching off of another industry, and Nurture our Own.
It does us Little Good, to Ask of them 'please STOP', if we've No Brake Fluid to Give them to Stop With. We are Asking them to Bite the hand that Feeds them, but we Offer them no Bread. It Frankly Makes little Sence. I've BTDT, Know the Frustration of struggling with month to month dialup fees just to Stay Connected, you Cannnot Stop one in that poor state of affairs from doing what they have to do, and I think therein lie a large degree of the problem of persistance that we see in these sites.
P IS, eek, Right. eek eek eek, (MO, you Losing it boy), Not 'all' ptr searches are Garbage. ptr clickers Do Buy from ppc advertisers. It 'could' be a good thingy for Both industries, and they 'could' co-exist quite nicely.
Actually, the Feeds could bring that about in a flash, if they weren't so busy hiding from their advertisers.
The Whole of the Entire system is corrupt, Right to the Top.
But as it Currently is going down, the Feeds ARE going to in the end USE ptr as the scapegoat, the environment out there is Perfect for it, heck, I Myself have done enough damage this past year to finish us Alone when it finally hits the fan up top.
So, for Me at least, what Was a '' great webmaster revenue tool '', is Now Run by a bunch of Thugs no better than the po's running these sham sites, as they Know it, and they DO Nothing about it.
The whole of the thingy, Leaves me to ponder, just 'who' or 'what' do I stand for anymore in the ptr biz.?... Who's 'side' am I on, and how do I go about making it a better environment for all concerned.
This much, I can tell you All. The 2nd tier Cannot Withstand Certain things for long, and the forced search sites/0-iframe sites, ARE Two of those Things.
I just think it in Our best Interest, to clean up the act a bit, before the feeds do it for us.
The search exchanges went down, and we survived that one.
The ptc page foulup went down, and we survived That one too, although the Negative exposure we got in the ppc advertising community was horrific that round.
off-topic: One thing that Really erks me, is this:
If we could Get the PPC Advertiser to SEE the light of Day, Together, we could Force the Feeds into Cleaning up the act. Then, they would Either Dump us, (if their advertisers were Willing to take the Loss in traffic, which Is substantial), OR they would choose to work With PO's like P. It 'could' Work for All concerned, and the reputation of ptr And 2nd tier ppc Alike would Benefit. humm, that might take some Major delegating though...
MO.
I have seen for the two sites that Purpledice has mentioned the emails with full headers which confirmed the two sites are forcing searches.
I have a headache anyone have a couple aspirin? This problem just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger
I have a headache anyone have a couple aspirin? This problem just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger
QUOTE(madmeikal @ Dec 6 2005, 06:50 PM)
Those that know me, know I fully Agree with you.
However...
Anything, is Better than what is Happening right now. The forced search thing is getting Soooo outta hand, that Frankly, my Secret Plan, (if I were to have one at this juncture), would be to Encourage it, and Help it to thrive.
That, I think, and after Substantial Contemplation on the matter), is Likely the Shortest Route, to the Real end Goal, of having ptr Banned Entirely.
Having Said all that, I don't think it's Ready for That, and I simply don't know if it would survive, at least Not as we know it Today.
Now, one can well assert that a Good thing perhaps, but none the less, a Lot of Innocent Victums is What you Wind up with in that senerio, not something I care to be the Instigator Of.
A 'Transitional' Solution, I Remain Convinced, IS the way to go.
We NEED, to Educate, to Train, to Tutor on the ways of a Better Way to Earn, than Leaching off of another industry, and Nurture our Own.
It does us Little Good, to Ask of them 'please STOP', if we've No Brake Fluid to Give them to Stop With. We are Asking them to Bite the hand that Feeds them, but we Offer them no Bread. It Frankly Makes little Sence. I've BTDT, Know the Frustration of struggling with month to month dialup fees just to Stay Connected, you Cannnot Stop one in that poor state of affairs from doing what they have to do, and I think therein lie a large degree of the problem of persistance that we see in these sites.
P IS, eek, Right. eek eek eek, (MO, you Losing it boy), Not 'all' ptr searches are Garbage. ptr clickers Do Buy from ppc advertisers. It 'could' be a good thingy for Both industries, and they 'could' co-exist quite nicely.
Actually, the Feeds could bring that about in a flash, if they weren't so busy hiding from their advertisers.
The Whole of the Entire system is corrupt, Right to the Top.
But as it Currently is going down, the Feeds ARE going to in the end USE ptr as the scapegoat, the environment out there is Perfect for it, heck, I Myself have done enough damage this past year to finish us Alone when it finally hits the fan up top.
So, for Me at least, what Was a '' great webmaster revenue tool '', is Now Run by a bunch of Thugs no better than the po's running these sham sites, as they Know it, and they DO Nothing about it.
The whole of the thingy, Leaves me to ponder, just 'who' or 'what' do I stand for anymore in the ptr biz.?... Who's 'side' am I on, and how do I go about making it a better environment for all concerned.
This much, I can tell you All. The 2nd tier Cannot Withstand Certain things for long, and the forced search sites/0-iframe sites, ARE Two of those Things.
I just think it in Our best Interest, to clean up the act a bit, before the feeds do it for us.
The search exchanges went down, and we survived that one.
The ptc page foulup went down, and we survived That one too, although the Negative exposure we got in the ppc advertising community was horrific that round.
off-topic: One thing that Really erks me, is this:
If we could Get the PPC Advertiser to SEE the light of Day, Together, we could Force the Feeds into Cleaning up the act. Then, they would Either Dump us, (if their advertisers were Willing to take the Loss in traffic, which Is substantial), OR they would choose to work With PO's like P. It 'could' Work for All concerned, and the reputation of ptr And 2nd tier ppc Alike would Benefit. humm, that might take some Major delegating though...
MO.
[right][snapback]4114374[/snapback][/right]
However...
Anything, is Better than what is Happening right now. The forced search thing is getting Soooo outta hand, that Frankly, my Secret Plan, (if I were to have one at this juncture), would be to Encourage it, and Help it to thrive.
That, I think, and after Substantial Contemplation on the matter), is Likely the Shortest Route, to the Real end Goal, of having ptr Banned Entirely.
Having Said all that, I don't think it's Ready for That, and I simply don't know if it would survive, at least Not as we know it Today.
Now, one can well assert that a Good thing perhaps, but none the less, a Lot of Innocent Victums is What you Wind up with in that senerio, not something I care to be the Instigator Of.
A 'Transitional' Solution, I Remain Convinced, IS the way to go.
We NEED, to Educate, to Train, to Tutor on the ways of a Better Way to Earn, than Leaching off of another industry, and Nurture our Own.
It does us Little Good, to Ask of them 'please STOP', if we've No Brake Fluid to Give them to Stop With. We are Asking them to Bite the hand that Feeds them, but we Offer them no Bread. It Frankly Makes little Sence. I've BTDT, Know the Frustration of struggling with month to month dialup fees just to Stay Connected, you Cannnot Stop one in that poor state of affairs from doing what they have to do, and I think therein lie a large degree of the problem of persistance that we see in these sites.
P IS, eek, Right. eek eek eek, (MO, you Losing it boy), Not 'all' ptr searches are Garbage. ptr clickers Do Buy from ppc advertisers. It 'could' be a good thingy for Both industries, and they 'could' co-exist quite nicely.
Actually, the Feeds could bring that about in a flash, if they weren't so busy hiding from their advertisers.
The Whole of the Entire system is corrupt, Right to the Top.
But as it Currently is going down, the Feeds ARE going to in the end USE ptr as the scapegoat, the environment out there is Perfect for it, heck, I Myself have done enough damage this past year to finish us Alone when it finally hits the fan up top.
So, for Me at least, what Was a '' great webmaster revenue tool '', is Now Run by a bunch of Thugs no better than the po's running these sham sites, as they Know it, and they DO Nothing about it.
The whole of the thingy, Leaves me to ponder, just 'who' or 'what' do I stand for anymore in the ptr biz.?... Who's 'side' am I on, and how do I go about making it a better environment for all concerned.
This much, I can tell you All. The 2nd tier Cannot Withstand Certain things for long, and the forced search sites/0-iframe sites, ARE Two of those Things.
I just think it in Our best Interest, to clean up the act a bit, before the feeds do it for us.
The search exchanges went down, and we survived that one.
The ptc page foulup went down, and we survived That one too, although the Negative exposure we got in the ppc advertising community was horrific that round.
off-topic: One thing that Really erks me, is this:
If we could Get the PPC Advertiser to SEE the light of Day, Together, we could Force the Feeds into Cleaning up the act. Then, they would Either Dump us, (if their advertisers were Willing to take the Loss in traffic, which Is substantial), OR they would choose to work With PO's like P. It 'could' Work for All concerned, and the reputation of ptr And 2nd tier ppc Alike would Benefit. humm, that might take some Major delegating though...
MO.
[right][snapback]4114374[/snapback][/right]
OMG I need a fainting smiley.. MO what you just posted amazes me .. You I think have finally seen both sides to it not just one side.
I agree it could be a lot of work.. I am doing what I can and so are some others but it will take more then what I can do and them. It is exasperating at times.
There are members who do care. I have found out that there are people out there who care very much about what is going on. I want to thank all of you for being so supportive and helpful.
I feel like I have barely nicked the surface though. What is going on needs people to take part in changing things.
QUOTE(priestes @ Dec 7 2005, 10:52 AM)
I have seen for the two sites that Purpledice has mentioned the emails with full headers which confirmed the two sites are forcing searches.
I have a headache anyone have a couple aspirin? This problem just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger
[right][snapback]4114380[/snapback][/right]
I have a headache anyone have a couple aspirin? This problem just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger
[right][snapback]4114380[/snapback][/right]
Well Yes, it Does. It's a Free For All for them.
I'm beginning to think they have Seen the posts in the past here, and are thinking, 'oh, they can't do anything to stop us, go for it...'.
Again, if it were a Simple matter of them Burying Themselves, Yeah, just let them vulturize the last they can suck out of it, and poof, Done.
Problem Is, they Drag the Whole ptr biz down the pipe with them.
careful what you pray for mo...
QUOTE(madmeikal @ Dec 6 2005, 07:07 PM)
Well Yes, it Does. It's a Free For All for them.
I'm beginning to think they have Seen the posts in the past here, and are thinking, 'oh, they can't do anything to stop us, go for it...'.
Again, if it were a Simple matter of them Burying Themselves, Yeah, just let them vulturize the last they can suck out of it, and poof, Done.
Problem Is, they Drag the Whole ptr biz down the pipe with them.
careful what you pray for mo...
[right][snapback]4114408[/snapback][/right]
I'm beginning to think they have Seen the posts in the past here, and are thinking, 'oh, they can't do anything to stop us, go for it...'.
Again, if it were a Simple matter of them Burying Themselves, Yeah, just let them vulturize the last they can suck out of it, and poof, Done.
Problem Is, they Drag the Whole ptr biz down the pipe with them.
careful what you pray for mo...
[right][snapback]4114408[/snapback][/right]
In a sense, yes, showing greed to the point of causing PTR programs as a whole to be unacceptable for searches would drag down the PTR arena, but only those that actually relied on searches to a great extent. Others with minimal searches would lose only a bit of their business, and those with none would thrive, perhaps even gaining new members and thus respect amongst advertisers wishing to promote something other than searches.
Yes, it would ruin the few situations where the search emails are used legitimately. Of course, that would be a down note - throwing the baby out with the bathwater. In this case, though, I would see that scenario as an improvement over the current one.
Just my two cents.
QUOTE(madmeikal @ Dec 6 2005, 07:07 PM)
Well Yes, it Does. It's a Free For All for them.
I'm beginning to think they have Seen the posts in the past here, and are thinking, 'oh, they can't do anything to stop us, go for it...'.
Again, if it were a Simple matter of them Burying Themselves, Yeah, just let them vulturize the last they can suck out of it, and poof, Done.
Problem Is, they Drag the Whole ptr biz down the pipe with them.
careful what you pray for mo...
[right][snapback]4114408[/snapback][/right]
I'm beginning to think they have Seen the posts in the past here, and are thinking, 'oh, they can't do anything to stop us, go for it...'.
Again, if it were a Simple matter of them Burying Themselves, Yeah, just let them vulturize the last they can suck out of it, and poof, Done.
Problem Is, they Drag the Whole ptr biz down the pipe with them.
careful what you pray for mo...
[right][snapback]4114408[/snapback][/right]
But the whole ptr industry is not all the same a lot of innocent people will be hurt if the whole thing went down. Sometimes I think searches being banned entirely would be the answer but I am not sure that is the answer and I myself believe that searches if used appropriately could be a benefit to advertisers on the search engines or even be a way we could provide them with branding. But with the shape of the industry now we are worse then cow dung on their shoes right now. I am not sure how much or how far things have to go but I for one want to make my sites real businesses with real advertisers, but it sure difficult explaining your way out of the cow dung.
QUOTE
A 'Transitional' Solution, I Remain Convinced, IS the way to go.
We NEED, to Educate, to Train, to Tutor on the ways of a Better Way to Earn, than Leaching off of another industry, and Nurture our Own.
We NEED, to Educate, to Train, to Tutor on the ways of a Better Way to Earn, than Leaching off of another industry, and Nurture our Own.
That might work for people who ultimately care, but the ones making these click fraud ptr's seem to be people who just want the quickest way to easy money and as little work as possible - some seem to be people who are already into click fraud in other ways and found out that they could get a bunch of money through also having a email list of people who would click for them for a portion of the revenue from it.
How do you change those peoples' mindsets?
QUOTE(priestes @ Dec 7 2005, 11:15 AM)
But the whole ptr industry is not all the same a lot of innocent people will be hurt if the whole thing went down. Sometimes I think searches being banned entirely would be the answer but I am not sure that is the answer and I myself believe that searches if used appropriately could be a benefit to advertisers on the search engines or even be a way we could provide them with branding. But with the shape of the industry now we are worse then cow dung on their shoes right now. I am not sure how much or how far things have to go but I for one want to make my sites real businesses with real advertisers, but it sure difficult explaining your way out of the cow dung.
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You know, in a way, things are 'as they should be'.
What I mean is, the 'dung' is Not the Reality, it's the Advertisers *Perception* of that reality, and Isn't that the Name of the Advertising Game.?...
Perhaps We just need to be more convincing than They.?...
Stranger thingys have Happened. I mean, could you just picture a jeweler in the late 50's leaning over the counter to the prospect and softly murmuring '' a ROCK is a Girls best friend.'' It worked well later for a nic, but the advertising pitch needed more Ring to it.
huummm, roflmao, gots ta go write an ad,
QUOTE(wagdoll @ Dec 7 2005, 11:31 AM)
That might work for people who ultimately care, but the ones making these click fraud ptr's seem to be people who just want the quickest way to easy money and as little work as possible - some seem to be people who are already into click fraud in other ways and found out that they could get a bunch of money through also having a email list of people who would click for them for a portion of the revenue from it.
How do you change those peoples' mindsets?
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How do you change those peoples' mindsets?
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I think we've got two things going for us:
1- Most of the people we're dealing with, are just Clickers. There are a relatively small handfull running the sites themselves, and I think the clickers are far less hard-core, despite their supporting the sites right now.
2- I think Most People, *Given the Viable Alternative*, Will take the less 'hostile' Means, to make the buck.
It's All supply/demand. Any one clicker in paid-to, (barring the occationaly fanatical with 111 ref links), can Only support SOOOO many sites. If we can offer up Competitive Alternatives to the less desireable forced search sites, I Do think the impact would be notable.
Tough cookie to crack competing with them though. Even the current successes I'm seeing in real goods/services ads in ptr, cannot yet compete with these forced search sites, not from a $$ standpoint.
although Becoming the Advertiser might work...
QUOTE(madmeikal @ Dec 6 2005, 07:44 PM)
Tough cookie to crack competing with them though. Even the current successes I'm seeing in real goods/services ads in ptr, cannot yet compete with these forced search sites, not from a $$ standpoint.
although Becoming the Advertiser might work...
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although Becoming the Advertiser might work...
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I bolded the part here that I would like to comment on. Maybe it is not so much becoming the advertiser but to convince the potential advertiser.
I see a problem convincing search advertisers but it does not mean we cannot convince other advertisers that perhaps....Just thinking outloud here.
Could've sworn I posted in this thread yesterday...
QUOTE(hiredgoon @ Dec 8 2005, 10:44 PM)
Could've sworn I posted in this thread yesterday...
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You did post 319 page 13
Weird I just noticed my posts have gone missing from yesterday and I got PM's missing and sigh the Pm's took me ages to do now I got to go do it all again. Anyone know if I am going mad or something lol.
There is a thread here about it
http://www.getpaidforum.com/forums/index.p...view=getnewpost
So no your not going mad lol
http://www.getpaidforum.com/forums/index.p...view=getnewpost
So no your not going mad lol
Thanks for that. Hope a more recent backup is avail when they're ready to repair.
If this article is any indication of what is to come, methinks that this won't be a problem soon.... 
http://www.webpronews.com/insiderreports/s...ClickFraud.html
Pretty bad if what they say is true - we're fighting a losing battle here.
http://www.webpronews.com/insiderreports/s...ClickFraud.html
Pretty bad if what they say is true - we're fighting a losing battle here.
QUOTE(graywolf30 @ Dec 9 2005, 01:48 AM)
If this article is any indication of what is to come, methinks that this won't be a problem soon....
http://www.webpronews.com/insiderreports/s...ClickFraud.html
Pretty bad if what they say is true - we're fighting a losing battle here.
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http://www.webpronews.com/insiderreports/s...ClickFraud.html
Pretty bad if what they say is true - we're fighting a losing battle here.
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Excellent article but after reading it, just how much of an impact does our little 'industry' have in comparison to the BIG TIME cheaters?
Not that I am condoning or defending our own click issues but wow, this is bad:
QUOTE
"Many of the fraudulent clicks come from overseas proxy servers; these RBL servers are widely known as origins of fraud and spam and Google should block them like any other responsible ISP does," said Briggs.
"We have been watching this and documenting it for some time, not only for ourselves but for our customers from our network and several other networks," said Briggs, "and we have the technical expertise to prove
without a doubt that it is happening and that Google could do something about it if they wanted to."
"We have been watching this and documenting it for some time, not only for ourselves but for our customers from our network and several other networks," said Briggs, "and we have the technical expertise to prove
without a doubt that it is happening and that Google could do something about it if they wanted to."
Also, this:
QUOTE
"You can put that ring on and it makes you invisible. If no one can see you, you can do anything. It would be very easy to set up a fraudulent affiliate network and make $5 million one month, $10 million the next, and $15 million the month after that."
Again, I am not minimizing OUR part in the problem with PPC advertising but lets face it, I am quite sure that our entire industry doesn't even generate $20k to $50k worth of total CLICKS in a given month, let alone how many of those are "forced, coerced, blind", etc.
Then we have this blurb at the bottom of it:
QUOTE
Those in attendance at the SES Chicago conference still seemed very enthused about PPC advertising. Many have also noted that they are still achieving a good ROI with pay-per-click.
So, with that being said, although we are considered near the bottom of results, how many of our sites with responsible POs and members, are actually achieving a fair ROI with the search engines?
In other words, COMBAT the big fish first (cheating Search Engines, blatant abuse of sites using 0-frames, blocking these proxy server 'click engines' as described above) and I am guessing the rest of the normal clicks within our own industry and across the entire internet would probably be "sufficient" in the eyes of the PPC advertiser (their ROI).
We have been battling among ourselves for well over a year now about this issue and I have seen PROS and CONS of both sides. Clicking with absolutely ZERO interest and just for the reward is wrong.
Clicking out of even a remote interest in the link I would say is OK. Afterall, many a sale has been made by someone just stumbling on to a site.
Members have gotten offended over and over in this forum and they say "I HAVE purchased from a search before just not everytime".
Thats not the issue. That is how the whole internet advertising business works. Not every click is a sale (boy wouldn't THAT be nice). Not here in our industry, not anywhere else for that matter either.
I guess what I am saying, if they really want to combat the click fraud, go after the BIG FISH first and maybe most of the little fish will die off on their own (they try and do this with drug lords as well. Get them and the little drug dealers lose their 'drug supply').
Disclaimer: as I mentioned earlier, clicking with ZERO interest and for just the fraction of cent reward, even in our industry, is wrong and needs to stop as well but the best way to increase the ROI for the PPC advertiser is to attack the BIGGEST theft of funds first.
Are we wrong since so long now? Fighting the Clicking fraud?
Of course we are
We don't need to ban all searches from the PTR industry, the interested people make search and even buy products from their searches.
We need to educate the members, learn them why to click or not click. Less search clickers will means less sites up to cheat the SE, but also a better quality of the results of such ads. The form of those ads also need to be modified, the standard portal we saw too much are just boring and a developped way to cheat SE by "suggesting" the high bidded words.
When you see a ptr, an traffic exchange, an seller site, you're visit something real , with info to review. What about the Search Portal, there is no interest to visit such page if you're not intended to search, if you don't need to search.
I would like to see well designed pages, with valuable information, a Adsense banner with additional links and a search box if the page didn't give me enough info but gave me the will to find more.
That kind of page could even be more rentable than a basic search portal (as described several time sby MO).
My idea is not exempted of issue of course, too many CPM banners, skycrappers, oiframes and consort, ..... . But it will educate people to have something to read on the pages they see
But it's maybe time for PTR to adopt a new rule : accept only "quality" ads
JMO
Cheers,
Gray Eminence
Of course we are
We don't need to ban all searches from the PTR industry, the interested people make search and even buy products from their searches.
We need to educate the members, learn them why to click or not click. Less search clickers will means less sites up to cheat the SE, but also a better quality of the results of such ads. The form of those ads also need to be modified, the standard portal we saw too much are just boring and a developped way to cheat SE by "suggesting" the high bidded words.
When you see a ptr, an traffic exchange, an seller site, you're visit something real , with info to review. What about the Search Portal, there is no interest to visit such page if you're not intended to search, if you don't need to search.
I would like to see well designed pages, with valuable information, a Adsense banner with additional links and a search box if the page didn't give me enough info but gave me the will to find more.
That kind of page could even be more rentable than a basic search portal (as described several time sby MO).
My idea is not exempted of issue of course, too many CPM banners, skycrappers, oiframes and consort, ..... . But it will educate people to have something to read on the pages they see
But it's maybe time for PTR to adopt a new rule : accept only "quality" ads
JMO
Cheers,
Gray Eminence
There's one thing I don't understand. Let's take a look a this little example. A new member Pete is joining a PTR, checks the 'searches' checkbox in the interest area and gets 40 search mails on the first day. Pete clicks the link in every mail but is only doing one search. The next day he gets again 40 search mails, clicks again the links and this time he does two searches. On day 3 and 4 he doesn't search but clicks all links just to reveice the money. Now the owner of the PTR checks his log files and sees that Pete did only 3 searches out of 160. Starting day 5 Pete gets only four search mails because he has obviously only a very few interest in searching and four mails are enough for him.
As far as I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong) quite a lot of PTRs that are discussed in this thread act like this or a little bit different. My question is: Why do you guys say this PTR is a bad one b/c he forces its members to search. I think this is not the case here. Pete is not forced to search. He gets only four mails because he has no interest in more than two search portals/day and he gets his money when he reaches the payout limit. This takes a little time, ok. But why is PTR's behaviour against the TOS of the SEs? Why is this paid to search? Paid to search is when you have to search every time when you click a search link in order to get the money (again plz correct me if I'm wrong). The problem is that Pete cheats PTR's advertisers b/c he claims to be interested in searches. My question, why are mainly the PTRs the bad boys. I'm not a PTR owner nor will I ever enter this business. Too many members are like Pete and that's the one and only problem. The name of the business is not Paid to search nor Paid to read. The correct name is Paid to read if interested b/c when signing up you have to tell which type of emails you want to receive. If you check nothing you get no mails. If you claim to be interested in searching but are only doing 2% of all possibly searches you are obviously a liar.
As far as I know SPAM is defined as sending advertising to uninterested people. Sending 40 mails to uninterested members like Pete could be considered as SPAM, so the PTR must act and stop sending too many mails b/c SPAM is against SE's TOS.
As far as I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong) quite a lot of PTRs that are discussed in this thread act like this or a little bit different. My question is: Why do you guys say this PTR is a bad one b/c he forces its members to search. I think this is not the case here. Pete is not forced to search. He gets only four mails because he has no interest in more than two search portals/day and he gets his money when he reaches the payout limit. This takes a little time, ok. But why is PTR's behaviour against the TOS of the SEs? Why is this paid to search? Paid to search is when you have to search every time when you click a search link in order to get the money (again plz correct me if I'm wrong). The problem is that Pete cheats PTR's advertisers b/c he claims to be interested in searches. My question, why are mainly the PTRs the bad boys. I'm not a PTR owner nor will I ever enter this business. Too many members are like Pete and that's the one and only problem. The name of the business is not Paid to search nor Paid to read. The correct name is Paid to read if interested b/c when signing up you have to tell which type of emails you want to receive. If you check nothing you get no mails. If you claim to be interested in searching but are only doing 2% of all possibly searches you are obviously a liar.
As far as I know SPAM is defined as sending advertising to uninterested people. Sending 40 mails to uninterested members like Pete could be considered as SPAM, so the PTR must act and stop sending too many mails b/c SPAM is against SE's TOS.
Ok, I check a box indicating that I'm interested in new ptrs that are opening...
On day one, I get 40 mails advertising 40 different ptrs, I sign up for one.
On day two, I get 40 mails advertising 40 different ptrs, I sign up for two.
So from that point on, I should only get 2 or three mails a day advertising
new ptrs because I obviously am not interested in signing up to all new ptrs...
right?
I think not.
You check the search box because you are interrested in receiving search mails,
just in case you may have something to look for. Not because you intend to do
every single search.
JMO,
Cat
On day one, I get 40 mails advertising 40 different ptrs, I sign up for one.
On day two, I get 40 mails advertising 40 different ptrs, I sign up for two.
So from that point on, I should only get 2 or three mails a day advertising
new ptrs because I obviously am not interested in signing up to all new ptrs...
right?
I think not.
You check the search box because you are interrested in receiving search mails,
just in case you may have something to look for. Not because you intend to do
every single search.
JMO,
Cat
SPAM is defined as receiving email that you did not ASK for (whether you find the email interesting or not is irrelevant).
In a PTRs case, you have joined as a member and have OPTED IN to receive email from that site. If you don't want them, you OPT OUT.
Like Cat said, when you select an interest category, regardless of how MUCH interest you have, you should be able to click that interest if you choose, right?
Why is it that Search Portals are always the focus?
Why haven't we seen complaints from people that click the "business category" or "hobby category"? I'm sure EVERY business or hobby page that they view, they are not interested in the subject yet they click it anyway.
Why? Simple: the search portal advertiser wants to make profit each and every time they send out an ad. No harm in wanting to make profit but forcing that is what we argue about.
Rod
In a PTRs case, you have joined as a member and have OPTED IN to receive email from that site. If you don't want them, you OPT OUT.
Like Cat said, when you select an interest category, regardless of how MUCH interest you have, you should be able to click that interest if you choose, right?
Why is it that Search Portals are always the focus?
Why haven't we seen complaints from people that click the "business category" or "hobby category"? I'm sure EVERY business or hobby page that they view, they are not interested in the subject yet they click it anyway.
Why? Simple: the search portal advertiser wants to make profit each and every time they send out an ad. No harm in wanting to make profit but forcing that is what we argue about.
Rod
QUOTE(cec1001 @ Dec 9 2005, 01:40 PM)
Ok, I check a box indicating that I'm interested in new ptrs that are opening...
On day one, I get 40 mails advertising 40 different ptrs, I sign up for one.
On day two, I get 40 mails advertising 40 different ptrs, I sign up for two.
So from that point on, I should only get 2 or three mails a day advertising
new ptrs because I obviously am not interested in signing up to all new ptrs...
right?
On day one, I get 40 mails advertising 40 different ptrs, I sign up for one.
On day two, I get 40 mails advertising 40 different ptrs, I sign up for two.
So from that point on, I should only get 2 or three mails a day advertising
new ptrs because I obviously am not interested in signing up to all new ptrs...
right?
You're absolutely right.
QUOTE(cec1001 @ Dec 9 2005, 01:40 PM)
You check the search box because you are interrested in receiving search mails,
just in case you may have something to look for. Not because you intend to do
every single search.
JMO,
Cat
[right][snapback]4116824[/snapback][/right]
just in case you may have something to look for. Not because you intend to do
every single search.
JMO,
Cat
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Who said EVERY search? The search box is for people that are interested in searching(!), not for people who are interested in receiving and only watching search portals and rarely from time to time are doing searches. Again, if someone only makes 2% (or something like that) of all searches he has nearly no interest and have to uncheck the box. Everything else is cheating the advertisers.
QUOTE(aladin @ Dec 9 2005, 02:14 PM)
There's one thing I don't understand. Let's take a look a this little example. A new member Pete is joining a PTR, checks the 'searches' checkbox in the interest area and gets 40 search mails on the first day. Pete clicks the link in every mail but is only doing one search. The next day he gets again 40 search mails, clicks again the links and this time he does two searches. On day 3 and 4 he doesn't search but clicks all links just to reveice the money. Now the owner of the PTR checks his log files and sees that Pete did only 3 searches out of 160. Starting day 5 Pete gets only four search mails because he has obviously only a very few interest in searching and four mails are enough for him.
As far as I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong) quite a lot of PTRs that are discussed in this thread act like this or a little bit different. My question is: Why do you guys say this PTR is a bad one b/c he forces its members to search. I think this is not the case here. Pete is not forced to search. He gets only four mails because he has no interest in more than two search portals/day and he gets his money when he reaches the payout limit. This takes a little time, ok. But why is PTR's behaviour against the TOS of the SEs? Why is this paid to search? Paid to search is when you have to search every time when you click a search link in order to get the money (again plz correct me if I'm wrong). The problem is that Pete cheats PTR's advertisers b/c he claims to be interested in searches. My question, why are mainly the PTRs the bad boys. I'm not a PTR owner nor will I ever enter this business. Too many members are like Pete and that's the one and only problem. The name of the business is not Paid to search nor Paid to read. The correct name is Paid to read if interested b/c when signing up you have to tell which type of emails you want to receive. If you check nothing you get no mails. If you claim to be interested in searching but are only doing 2% of all possibly searches you are obviously a liar.
As far as I know SPAM is defined as sending advertising to uninterested people. Sending 40 mails to uninterested members like Pete could be considered as SPAM, so the PTR must act and stop sending too many mails b/c SPAM is against SE's TOS.
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As far as I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong) quite a lot of PTRs that are discussed in this thread act like this or a little bit different. My question is: Why do you guys say this PTR is a bad one b/c he forces its members to search. I think this is not the case here. Pete is not forced to search. He gets only four mails because he has no interest in more than two search portals/day and he gets his money when he reaches the payout limit. This takes a little time, ok. But why is PTR's behaviour against the TOS of the SEs? Why is this paid to search? Paid to search is when you have to search every time when you click a search link in order to get the money (again plz correct me if I'm wrong). The problem is that Pete cheats PTR's advertisers b/c he claims to be interested in searches. My question, why are mainly the PTRs the bad boys. I'm not a PTR owner nor will I ever enter this business. Too many members are like Pete and that's the one and only problem. The name of the business is not Paid to search nor Paid to read. The correct name is Paid to read if interested b/c when signing up you have to tell which type of emails you want to receive. If you check nothing you get no mails. If you claim to be interested in searching but are only doing 2% of all possibly searches you are obviously a liar.
As far as I know SPAM is defined as sending advertising to uninterested people. Sending 40 mails to uninterested members like Pete could be considered as SPAM, so the PTR must act and stop sending too many mails b/c SPAM is against SE's TOS.
[right][snapback]4116767[/snapback][/right]
Pete is not the cheater in your example, he is doing for what he is paid, visit sites and when he wants he is searching
What thsi thread is about is site woners who delete pete if he don't do the 160 searches, that is cheating TOS of the SE
I still feel that SE can be advertised in the PTR, but not as they are for the moment with portals, and not as some owner are "forcing" members to search every time they visit a search portal
QUOTE(onlooker @ Dec 9 2005, 01:59 PM)
In a PTRs case, you have joined as a member and have OPTED IN to receive email from that site. If you don't want them, you OPT OUT.
That's wrong. You haven't opted in to receive(!) emails from one or more category, but you have opted in to be interested(!) in receiving emails of one or more categories. When you signup there is field with checkboxes. The title of this field is not 'receive' but 'interests'.
QUOTE(onlooker @ Dec 9 2005, 01:59 PM)
Like Cat said, when you select an interest category, regardless of how MUCH interest you have, you should be able to click that interest if you choose, right?
This is not the question here. My question was, why is it wrong when the PTR owner only sends a few emails to members with nearly no interest. When the PTR only sends 5 search emails to a member who is only interested in two search portals/day. Why is this PTR a bad one? Why is it against SEs' TOS to only send 5 emails? Why is this forcing?
QUOTE(onlooker @ Dec 9 2005, 02:59 PM)
SPAM is defined as receiving email that you did not ASK for (whether you find the email interesting or not is irrelevant).
In a PTRs case, you have joined as a member and have OPTED IN to receive email from that site. If you don't want them, you OPT OUT.
Like Cat said, when you select an interest category, regardless of how MUCH interest you have, you should be able to click that interest if you choose, right?
Why is it that Search Portals are always the focus?
Why haven't we seen complaints from people that click the "business category" or "hobby category"? I'm sure EVERY business or hobby page that they view, they are not interested in the subject yet they click it anyway.
Why? Simple: the search portal advertiser wants to make profit each and every time they send out an ad. No harm in wanting to make profit but forcing that is what we argue about.
Rod
[right][snapback]4116864[/snapback][/right]
In a PTRs case, you have joined as a member and have OPTED IN to receive email from that site. If you don't want them, you OPT OUT.
Like Cat said, when you select an interest category, regardless of how MUCH interest you have, you should be able to click that interest if you choose, right?
Why is it that Search Portals are always the focus?
Why haven't we seen complaints from people that click the "business category" or "hobby category"? I'm sure EVERY business or hobby page that they view, they are not interested in the subject yet they click it anyway.
Why? Simple: the search portal advertiser wants to make profit each and every time they send out an ad. No harm in wanting to make profit but forcing that is what we argue about.
Rod
[right][snapback]4116864[/snapback][/right]
interesting idea, what will you do with the ads send to all members based on advertiser request?
No ptr actually offer the option to not received some categories of ads
QUOTE(Gray Eminence @ Dec 9 2005, 02:27 PM)
What thsi thread is about is site woners who delete pete if he don't do the 160 searches, that is cheating TOS of the SE
That's not true. That's only one part of this thread. Another part is the problem with PTRs that are only sending a few/no emails to members that are doing no or only a few searches.
This is Paid to Read. You receive an email, you read the ad, then you click the link in order to get paid. You have done what you were supposed to do. Anything further, joining a site, buying a product, doing a search, is strictly your choice. Any WM who penalizes you by reducing the number of emails you receive is wrong. You don't have to join every site advertised, you don't have to buy every product and you don't have to search.
QUOTE(cajunlady @ Dec 9 2005, 02:46 PM)
This is Paid to Read.
This is not true. You join a PTR and leave all interest category boxes unchecked. The result will be, that you don't receive any emails. This means the business we are talking about is NOT 'paid to read' but 'paid to read emails from categories you're interested in'.
QUOTE(aladin @ Dec 9 2005, 08:54 AM)
This is not true. You join a PTR and leave all interest category boxes unchecked. The result will be, that you don't receive any emails. This means the business we are talking about is NOT 'paid to read' but 'paid to read emails from categories you're interested in'.
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[right][snapback]4116943[/snapback][/right]
You are splitting hairs here. OK, it is paid to read emails from categories you're interested in. The rest of of my post still applies! You receive an email, you read the ad, then you click the link in order to get paid. You have done what you were supposed to do. Anything further, joining a site, buying a product, doing a search, is strictly your choice. Any WM who penalizes you by reducing the number of emails you receive is wrong. You don't have to join every site advertised, you don't have to buy every product and you don't have to search.
QUOTE(aladin @ Dec 9 2005, 03:54 PM)
This is not true. You join a PTR and leave all interest category boxes unchecked. The result will be, that you don't receive any emails. This means the business we are talking about is NOT 'paid to read' but 'paid to read emails from categories you're interested in'.
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Mostly erroneous statment
Interests are made to target ads, but nowadays, rare are the advertisers really using targeting, they tend to send to all members.
Searches are targeted to whom selected that interests.
Of course if a site is sending only searches, you will not receive many emails
If there's one thing this thread has made frighteningly clear, it is the deep conditioning (brain washing) that these "click fraud is cool" programs have succeeded in doing.
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