Are you a member of Classical Mails that you can state the above? Because I'm a member of this program and I never felt obligated to search and yet I still get all their emails.

Yes I am a member and he states in this thread that is what he does.

You mean this post?

Classical Mails doesn't force anyone to search. The rest of the post has to do with targetting.

the only group we decide to exclude is those who choose to participate in searches but never perform 1 valid search


Thats not targetting, thats search or you are not getting mails

MenaC this says to me if you don't seach you won't get the ads. Now is alpe's tells me this is not what he meant I am more then willing to remove him from the list. But that sentence says to me if someone doesn't do one valid search they are removed from searches.

"" ...searches but never perform 1 valid search...""

Than ADD HaulingCash.

remember when (Either Will, or Brian, I forget which one it was), told mike he wouldn't do a valid ?
so Mike Cut him off! he said, from recall here now '' I'll let you cheat ME, but I Won't let you cheat my advertisers''.

carefull here! You're going to Write a Blank Check, and Worsen the Mess, instead of Makeing it Better, if you're not careful.

Mena has this one Called, Leave well enough alone, and dump the site from the list. The Consequences of Leaving it on, On This Basis, opens up a can of ''peeing contests'' None of you want to get into....

MO I stated if the site owner would like to clarify his statement I would be more then happy to remove it from the list.

You know maybe I should just go back to my corner and shut up since no one in this industry really cares about "Honest" they all seem to care about how fast can I make a buck... If you all want to belong to sites that cheat the search engines and you all want to contribute to it and you all want to continue with dishonesty by all means dont let me stop you all. I will not say another word. I will let you all do as you please since it doesn't make one ###### iota of a difference what is said about honesty no one wants it anyways.

to all complaining

yeah lets all stop searching
bad results
no more ads

instead of getting some pocket money
you'll be saving for your grandchildren

If you're expecting everyone to agree on anything you will be waiting for a hot place to freeze over.

Honesty vs money

Which do you think is going to win?

If it's worth anything i think you were right to encourage exposure of these sites and say 'I don't want anything to do with them', they are bad for the ptr industry as well as for se advertisers (not affiliates, advertisers). And at the end of the day I think they are nasty and hypocritical - 'honest' members do valid searches ALL the time or they get deleted for 'cheating' the program, but by doing this the site owner is breaking the TOS of other businesses and just using their members as human click bots, then not paying them when they don't bot good enough

Well, I'll be sticking with priestes' sites over those who force their members. I know that she'll do what is best for her sites and I'll get paid like the rest of her members.

ETA: means to me if you are going to search do a vaild one if you dont want to search then dont

*sigh* All the flair of the dramatique of this world will not convince me that Classical Mails is dishonest or forces people to search since as a member there I know whether they force me or not and they don't

Perhaps Alpes could explain the difference between his

"short" searches
and
"enhanced" searches

or

how in his admin emails he shares who got deleted for not searching?

We aren't stupid, we understand that you dont' have to say "Search or you will be deleted" a list of folks that HAVE already been deleted for it is pretty clear.

On a side note: A site is not banned, by me, unless I have seen PROOF of some sort of coercion AND I've emailed the WM.
(so far Alpes members have written emails but have offered up no proof, there are a couple on the list I've had the same problem with)

I've been a member of Classical Mail for several months and have never been forced to search. I only do a valid search when I actually have something to look for.

There has been no reduction in the number of daily mails I receive.

I really think this is like the pot calling the kettle black.

While I don't agree with people blatently saying you "MUST" search or else..........I am hard pressed to really say that sites such as Classical Mail should be placed on a ban list.

In actuality, the sites that are upfront with members about the expectations with searches are in my opinion being rather brutally honest in a round about way.

Either way you slice it.................brute honesty in expectations or just sending out advertisers search ads or site search ads and not saying that one would like members to at least attempt to do a valid search are still in the same ballpark.

Both types of programs want valids in hopes of retaining returning advertisers as well as recieving a return on the admin searchs to help keep the sites afloat.....

The most ethical way to handle this situation for those who find the ethical issues behind searching more than they can bear.............would be to:

1. As a member not opt in for searches, not join any site that is predominantly search oriented and not click on any search ad..........if a link is not labeled and they are taken to a search portal...........close the window before the timer runs out.

2. As a program owner...............do not sell search ads..........do not send site search ads..................do away with them completely.

The only way I can see someone placing a ban on programs they believe are in direct violation of SE TOS...........is if they have absolutely no searches sent out from their program period. That means no advertising revenue to send out someones search portal and no admin searches go out to assist the program.

The little blurbs at the bottom of some emails say something to the effect of site revenue links.................non incensitized with money or points.............but sensitized none the less...........because the bottom line on those are that they go towards member payouts, pay for contests etc..............so the members know when they click a non incensitized search link for a program that every little few cents they help generate will bring them one step closer to being paid when the time comes.

In theory I understand what people want to do here because it is a bit annoying when a site demands valid searches..................I tend to not join those programs or quit...................

However, the difference between a site demanding and one that is not............really is not that significant when we get into which person is to be ripped off so to speak.

Although, I do not feel I am ripping advertisers off when I do product searches for things I am looking to purchase..............I do not buy on a whim.........I buy after careful research...........I will bookmark sites and go back............if the site I am going back to happens to belong to someone else due to it being an affiliate program...........only thing I can say is oh well..............that is the chance you take when you bid on listings as an affiliate to a program and not having your own unique items.

Anyhow..........I think this idea of banning has the potential to do more harm than good. But, each program owner must do what they think and feel is best for their own programs.............neither party is more right or wrong than the other.

I've heard many ask "how does the webmaster know when someone makes a valid search?"

I remember back when I had a searchdrifter search page, it would show each valid search and the IP address of it, didn't it?

Well, almost ALL webmaster sites now have IP checkers to check a member against what country they reside from, etc.

A simple "cross check" of the search portals stats and your own inhouse stats would show who is making valid searches, wouldn't it?

Not much of a mystery there (and no, I never even bothered to cross check...I have enough headaches to deal with each day...lol)


Rod

My comment of perhaps Classical should go on this list due to admission of the program owner in his own words if a person could not do a valid search they would be removed was still forcing a search as I read it.I also stated perhaps he would like to explain if I was wrong.

A member should not in any way be told how to do a search, that they can't opt in for a search or that if they don't search they will be removed from the search category. Now if someone wasn't doing a search but clicked those links from my understanding of his post he stated if he was not doing an occassional valid he would be removed from the search interest category which then would mean less emails. If this is not what alpe was stating by all means alpe please explain what you were referring to.

ptrhost, there is a difference between breaking the law and following the law. If I jaywalk and don't get caught I suppose it is ok, but if I jaywalk and a police offer sees me do it then I guess I am breaking the law. Perhaps this is a good example of fine line.

Just because I send search ads doesnt mean I break the rules. Just cause someone doesnt report me for something I did wrong doesn't make it right.

Sure it could harm my sites for standing up in what I believe in but do I want sites who are willing to do anything even when they don't see it is wrong promoted on my sites when I try very hard to run honest sites? No. Do I want to loose members over it ? No. Do i want people to see what is right and wrong? Yes.

Following the search engines tos does not make running search ads bad. Forcing searches, finding ways around making members search is breaking the terms of the search engines. It would be like saying but officer I didn't see you and I didn't see anything wrong with jaywalking since no one was looking. It still doesn't make it right. There is no I just did a little and so it is ok.

I wont force anyone to believe in what I say and perhaps me running search ads is contributing to the problem perhaps I should just join the crowd jump on the bandwagon and abuse my members, abuse the search engines, cause no one cares anyways as long as they get paid right?

As for me sending searches sadly I would much rather prefer to send something besides search ads but the truth is my sites would go under if I didn't. Very few programs have surviced on nonsearch ads.

Perhaps a trial run on one of my two smaller sites if they were nonsearch to see how many emails and how much the members could make and how loyal they would be without the search ads is in line.

That has been my experience as well with being a member of Classical Mails. They do not force members to search. Nor do they delete members who don't search.

Adding Classical Mails to a list of sites that force members to search would be a travesty and I wouldn't take that list very seriously at all.

Well said ptrhost.

Folks I give up cause most of you feel it is ok to click those links, it is ok how it is worded as long as someone is careful it is ok to just keep supporting these sites. I have no more to say .. You all win I will no longer post on this subject cause you know what I don't care anymore....

Just occurred (sp?) to me so I popped in to post...

Obviously, the programs on the banned list use the same search engines as the ones that are not on the list. Don't the "power searchers" get click limit notices like all the other searchers? Say an elite searcher is told to do 25 valid searches; wouldn't they get the click limits therefore making being forced to search or not moot? How could one be forced to do searches they are not allowed to do by the SE?

priestes,most see it as a general discussion but not another battle.Discussion will be always prepared for different opinions.Please dont take offense directing to any individual like youself. Its really hard to tell whether its ok or who's right,especially when some feeds/engine owners themselves are not sure nor take strict actions. Im not a member,and never an advertiser associated with any of listed sites,by no means supporting them,but i simply dont think its fair to appeal some sites to ban other group sites. There are sites that never delete inactives,deceiving advertisers,should we generate another list? There are sites never catch bots users,or even they know how to,they fear to lose 'active' members and avoid the endless boring manual work(which i almost would give up as well),deceiving advertisers,providing markets for bots,so another list maybe? Too many things are out of our own rationalism.

Edited to quote,

Some of you are unbelievable!!!

We've been hearing the complaints for MONTHS..."Why don't you do something about the sites that force searches" "

Now, some of us do something and it's still not good enough or is somehow arbitrary.

Search, don't search.
Join, don't join.
Buy, don't buy.
Let scam WM push you around, don't.

While we're at it, why don't we make ALL ptr links paid to sign up. Don't click this link unless you are giong to join the site RIGHT NOW or get deleted.

Whether or not you like,or understand or approve of SE's TOS, those ARE the rules. Live with em.

Any site or affiliate found forcing searches in ANY way, including veiled in hidden threats or incentives, I WILL be banning.

Those of you that have supported the elimination of this complete disregard for the rules, thank you! As always, any complaint emailed or pmed to me, with accompanying proof will be dealt with appropriately.

So I hope you are taking classicals search or else by stealth seriously

Personally I think any search ad in any gptr email is an incentivized search.

I cant imagine that anyone believes that if they sell a search ad with a value for clicking...most members will be clicking on it because they really need to stop and find something in the middle of doing their daily gptr clicks.

uh huh..sure

I know that they can JUST click but we all know..VERY WELL that if we ONLY click and dont do a VALID search...well..come payday we may just be needing to "search" up a payout.

Everytime this is brought up it is basically ignored because..as you say..without the searches the sites couldnt survive( and obviously THAT means VALID searches as no-one is getting paid for non valids.)

It seems that gptr is quick on the trigger to point the finger "away from themselves" in order to protect their little corner of the gptr world.

I am sure this will be deep sixed as off topic but I htink all search ads and everything surrounding them is all covered by the same topic..That being..Rip off the advertisers.

This is not against or about you priestes but is about all gptr sites.

Guess I have got myself in enough trouble so will quit for now.

Have a good one

Belle

bellestraker, I can fully agree with you. if all the posters here can agree with you, this topic should end now.

I have requested this thread be closed it just proves that people think some site owners can do what they like delete who they like and it wont matter as long as the advertiser gets his search valid results. Most want members forced lets face it they make more money that way and we are only here to make them money

I want to clear up one thing..What I posted was an opinion( probably too blunt and not well thought out) but AN OPINION on SEARCHES.

Although I quoted priestes..it was NOT an opinion on her or her site and I apologize if it appeared to be.

I quoted her as I started to respond only to the issue of the list..

I do respond without enough thought sometimes ( OK ....OFTEN)and although I may be overly opinionated it was not my intent to hurt anyone.

I just seriously can not see a whole lot of difference between incentivized or non incentivized..IN all honesty..is htere really a difference??

I know what is in search engine rules but did they really mean..Not paid for..or Not said to be paid for???

I think we all know what they MEAN..so IMO it boils down to a play on words by all of us who try to make certain parts of it OK.

Have a good one

Belle

I apologize if I took the thread OT

I think Gladcash should be added to the list as well. I have only joined and have 19c so we will part company. I never knew exactly what they mean't with their emails about searching or getting deleted.

WHY close it, this thread is a WEALTH of knowledge!

I agree with 3/4 of this thread, but I do have to comment on this one.

so, what you are saying is, it's ok to cheat the webmaster and the advertiser who paid for the search link, but it isn't ok to cheat the engines?

When you click a search link knowing full well you don't need to search for anything, but just taking the cash for the click isn't this cheating the webmaster and the advertiser of the link?

Wouldn't it be better to just not click the link at all? Either way just clicking the link is cheating someone and doesn't seem right to me, sure you will get paid, as you are not forced to search even though you know without the search both the webmaster and the advertiser loose, but this is just my opinion.

I can understand your way of thinking, as you click other links for ptr, etc, knowing you won't be joining it, but it seems to me that these links are just that, links to visit the site and see what the benefits are or what their products are and their prices to see if you are interested, but with these links you are actually visiting the site with just the one click and the webmaster and advertiser are receiving what they sent the link out for.

With searches if you click the link and don't click one of the links on it only you receive something, no one else and you know this before clicking.

I wouldn't want to cheat anyone myself, including the webmaster.

oh well, I barely ever send a search anymore due to all this complaining. People complain if they receive a search without requesting them then when the webmaster listens and starts asking members which of them would like to receive them people complain about special grouping. A webmaster can't win either way, so why bother at all?

JMHO

I don't think any sites should require people to search....However, if you aren't really interested in searching maybe you shouldn't check that category as an interest or join no search sites? Some sites put you on a restricted mail list if you have checked search as an interest, but don't search. There is still plenty of money to be made if you don't search. I am an opt in searcher and make a valid search about 80% of the time. the 20% I don't make are because no options come up when I have searched a key word or the engine is so riddled with popups/unders/viruses that my security features don't allow me to. If you want to get paid for searches without making valid ones just make search you always do valid admin searches so they don't put you on the restricted mail list.

<sigh> I am cheating NO ONE if I click a search link and simply visit the portal page which is what I'm paid to do in the first place. It is no different than clicking on a link of a PTR that I am either already a member of or have no intention of joining. Roll of the dice. That advertiser and WM may want me to search, they may hope I will search, but I am in no way obligated to search. The advertiser and the WM of that PTR may want me to join and may hope I will join from their link but I am in no way obligated.

Any webmaster that tells me I'm expected to make a valid search or offers me more emails or money for valid searches will find they have one less member.


Edited for punctuation

here is another program that is forcing searches if it has not allready been listed
avantmails here is what thier search emails say


You are receiving this email as a member of Avantmails.com.


Please Note Click the Link Only if you want to do A search!

***********************************
Enjoy searching? Please try this great one, Get the BEST result if you make a Valid search.
***********************************


To receive 1/4 cent please click here.


==================== U N S U B S C R I B E ========================
Go to http://www.avantmails.com/members.php, enter your e-mail address and password then
select "Unsubscribe" from the dropdown box and press "Submit".


ReplyForwardInvite Avantmails.com to Gmail








? Back to Inbox Archive Report Spam More Actions ...--------Apply label: New label ...1 of 31 Older ?

Here's another, while I was never a member of her PTR, I was a member of her sisters site where this WM also worked and took over I think. Her sister forced searching and threatened non-payment if we didn't search. By her own submission here at GPF you can see she forces searching as well. Judge for yourself .

plainandsimpleemails.com
http://www.getpaidforum.com/forums/index.p...dpost&p=3852068

The second site was:
starsandstripesemails.biz
But that one appears to be gone anyway.

Hey Avalon,
Ya beat me to it. I was just getting ready to mention this one. I was scared to join any new PTR's for a while at first, because I thought that this was the common way that all WM/PO treated their members! I also hadn't discovered this forum yet to learn about forced searching or that most PO's don't treat members badly. The abuse type admin mails about not searching was pretty scary to a newbie!

Take care,
Cindi2
crframe

Hey Cindi2, I gotta give Robbie and Brenda credit here because they go above and beyond the issue of forced searching to being unprofessional and abusive. That kind of puts them in a different category altogether.

Avalon,
That is a good point. I don't know about Brenda, having opted to not join when Robbie was telling us all about it and pushing it, so I lucked out there, but Robbie kinda made it an art abusing members into searching. Well, trying anyway. Must not have worked too well because she had to keep the ranting going on a daily basis. That is one reason that I got out. Donated my earnings to a member who was having some trouble - at least I hope I did - and left. Robbie sent some emails out saying that she was sending a search (maybe more than one, but I don't remember) with the profits to go to the member who needed it. It was a nice idea to do, but I just couldn't stay there any more, so I requested to have my earnings donated to that member and once I saw that my balance was empty I quit.

Cindi2

51searcher.com
ads-wow.com
Avantmails.com
daydayupemails.com
eyemails.com
honestmails.com
plainandsimpleemails.com
seekingpays.com
seekmails.com
softemails.com
starsandstripesemails.biz
sunshine-mail.com
thegoldclick.com
treescapemails.com
tulipptr.com

That's 15 of them now, frankly, I think they've got us beat.
If the feeds don't respond to the other thread, I invited goclick, enhance, epilot, and kanoodle, and if they Remain Silent, as I anticipate, well, there's One more shot I can take, and if That Fails, well, I simply cannot do any more, it simply is not worth it.

Chuck a Cross on what's left of the 2nd tier, and let the Feeds Themselves, Run their sorry arses the rest of the way outta town, and to H with the Lot of them.

First of all go read my terms. WWW.Plainandsimpleemails.com.. Searches is a interest and a chioce. No one can force you to be a member of any program or do any searches if you dont want to. Search is a interest. If you check the interest you receive searches. I have deleted cheaters for not following the timers and using cheat bots. I can care less if members search or not. I just dont want them to click links if they dont want to search. I dont pay members if they dont follow the timers because that could be a indication of use of cheat software. And no I dont have super searchers and dont intend to. How about people who dont want to do searches, not click links. This is a mail I have sent to all my my members last week:First of all more payouts were made today.Also,I occasionally go the getpaidforum to read our reviews I would like to clarify something. You are not forced to searh. Please do not click the links if you do not want to search.The chioce to search is entirely yours. Also, in the past there has been several members who have emailed me asking me how to search. We all have to learn.Anyway, I sent out instructions on how to do this in several emails due to the fact I was getting 20 plus emails a day asking me how. This was not intended to make anyone feel stupid. This was intended to help.




Now how is that forcing anyone to search?

Please read my post, #184, above.

I'm curious as to why you still don't have PetroMails on your list??

what are valid searches and forced searches i still doesnt understanding which is good

Regards
suresh

No they can't, not even after you click the link to visit the portal they can't force you to search or click a result - that is against the TOS of the search engines.



You can want all you like, you just can't tell people or intimate that or incentivise the actual search.



First time I've ever heard that excuse not to pay members

You call someone a cheat if the portal page and results page doesn't load up within the timer? Might not be an indication of a slow pc and dial up? Maybe the phone rang and they did their search when they got off the phone and could concentrate.

Freaky cos another site was deleting members for completing their searches too quickly. Another one deleted them because they finished about a microsecond before the timer on the server - couldn't possibly be some technological quirk, they were using cheat software!

Do you give this kind of service to all your advertisers or only the search affiliates?

Maybe I make a page with 10 3rd party banners on it and send a mail out 'only visit this link if you intend to click every single banner on the page stay on each site for 5.5 seconds, not a fraction of a second less or more' if they don't follow the rule you will delete the member because you care so much about me, the advertiser?



You get asked how because you keep threatening people and they are scared of losing their earnings? They want to know how to avoid deletion, not how to find what they are looking for, there is a big difference.

Have they never used google before? That doesn't come with instructions on how to do a valid search but most of us seem to muddle through and figure out how to find what we are after. How are ppc engines so different?

Those rules on valid searches are for the affiliates, not for the searchers using the service provided. If it was mandatory to visit one of the results after reaching the portal page I'm sure the SE could put it on there in bold letters. Mind you they couldn't threaten you with losing money if you didn't do what you were told.

How do things get so twisted when you stick a few cents up for grabs.

Everyone has there point of view, some more extreme then others, but all should be respected.

I'm more of the extreme. I personally believe programs like adpaid, gainpay, reliable etc should be shut down, except for a few that actually search for something they want and leave the rest of the links alone because they found what they want, the members of those programs are nothing but theifs and judging by this thread and a few others hypocrites as well.

Wagdoll,

That was very well said. This was one of the programs that I joined when I had just discovered PTR and didn't know that forced searches are a no-no.

One can play semantics games or use "sidestep logic" all they want, but, as was stated previously, this particular PO took threatening and abusive admin messages to a whole new level. I am sorry now that I didn't save any. There was usually one rant a day, but every once in a while she might have missed one. The threats were to delete all people clicking on a search link and not making a valid search, rolling back all earnings for sent searches that didn't earn enough money for the advertiser, and the unwritten, but very real, threat to be publicly shamed and humiliated in an admin message sent to all of the members. She did use numbers instead of user names, but the fact that we might end up in an email being publicly shamed was another reason to be scared at this program. If one searched too fast, or clicked the link and didn't do a valid search, we would be listed in a future admin mail, lecture included, so that all of the other members knew who was being naughty.

There was also no need to show the same amount of attention to other advertisers, as there were only maybe 5 - total - in all of the months that I was a member at this site.

This PO frequently reminded us that she works closely with all of her search places and is able to and does check IPs against valid searches vs. clicked and no search. Any member caught clicking and not searching had all of the threats listed above likely to happen, and we were told this on a daily basis.

Contacting her about problems didn't help much, either. If one got page errors, clicks exceeded, page that would not load in the space of the timer - even on a high speed connection - if at all, none of it mattered. It was our own fault or we were doing something wrong.

Cindi2
crframe

Quote Wagdoll
You can want all you like, you just can't tell people or intimate that or incentivise the actual search.


end quote

Usually "wanting" and letting your WANT be known is enough to get the point across( edit to add Not meant that its a good thing).



Have they never used google before? That doesn't come with instructions on how to do a valid search but most of us seem to muddle through and figure out how to find what we are after. How are ppc engines so different?




I wonder what the "honest" answer would be if people were asked why they use the Paid links to do a search as opposed to using a much better search engine like google etc.

I realize there are reasons like " I just wanted to try them or my friend owns it etc etc. but that applies to very few searches.

IMO it seems so obvious that these links are used because the clicker is being paid..IN most cases PERIOD..There is no other reason.
So why is there so much importance placed on if someone SAYS it or not.

I know the standard answer is that "its against se rules " and that is a valid answer..but we all know that we are EXPECTED to search at every site.

No they cant demand ordelete you for not searching but common seanse tells us that if the ads keep coming out and no-one clicks..then either there will be no ads or no money ( Or both)

I so rarely do searches for anyone simply becasue I prefer google and no-one pays me to use it.

I dont mind being paid to use a se..my problem is being paid to take their money when even before I click that link..I know darn well that I have no intention of giving them anything...

To me that seems like ordering a whole bunch of "try before you pay" products..knowing that I have no intention of keeping or paying for them.
I mean the type of things where if you are INTERESTED..you can have the product sent to your home and try it for 14 ( or 30?) days before you send the money.

Not illegal..but IMO wrong.

Is it not a rip off and an underhanded move to accept that offer if I know ahead of time that I have no intention of purchasing it so am just pratiscing a legal form of rip off.
Isnt that what we do ( most times) with searches?




How do things get so twisted when you stick a few cents up for grabs. :wacko

Excellent question..

Have a good one

Belle

here is the one search engine terms

We do not approve the following sites
Warez sites
Paid to read emails or paid to click sites
Any type of illegal or offensive sites
Any site found distributing adware, spyware, or any type of virus application.
Sites that have more than one popup throughout their site.
There are no exceptions to these guidelines

Regards
suresh

The whole industry would collapse and have to rebuild it self if this became the norm: Paid to read emails or paid to click sites

Maybe that is not such a bad thing though. It can't keep going as it is.