Thank you Rod! I could not have said it in a way that folks understood. I do now this hurts everyone allowing these sites to advertise. Will I tell them how to run their sites? No! But I can control what goes through my site as I have gambling, hyips, drug sites or other sites running illegal or questionable stuff. To me advertising sites who are stealing from the search engines, members, and advertisers fits right into the categories with the other sites I have banned. I have run a poll on my sites for members to vote and and it the consensus of the members to ban these sites. As soon as a list is gathered I will be removing any advertising and refusing advertising for these sites. I may not make a difference with my sites being small but I will not contribute to their unscrupulous gains.

I hope someone will compile that list too

Its not a matter of competition as to us not wanting to do business with them any longer because they may be getting direct purchases from members/advertisers that we could be getting.

Its a matter of principle. Should the honest sites who follow rules, guidelines and the law have to do business with ones that don't?

Not in my book.

Should a retail store HAVE to allow a person back in their store who has shoplifted in their store in the past?

Not in my book. In fact, most stores have it posted that "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" (or something like that).

Why would that be? Wouldn't EVERY customer be good business?

Again...no...

A customer who intentionally tries to harm the business through direct theft, cheating, scamming, or tries to cause a stink over every little thing, may not be a customer that store wants to conduct business with.

Should WE, the other websites be FORCED to continue accepting ads for these sites or, from a PTP standpoint, allow OUR pages be displayed over there so the cheating sites can profit from OUR ads via our approved sites list?

Not in MY book.



Rod

Here is the compiled list of sites coming off my ptp and that my sites will refuse advertising for. I will be adding any other program which blantly forces searches or has elite clubs. I will not contribute to their breaking tos of the search engines.

51searcher.com
ads-wow.com
eyemails.com
honestmails.com
seekingpays.com
seekmails.com
softemails.com
sunshine-mail.com
thegoldclick.com
treescapemails.com
tulipptr.com
daydayupemails.com

I'm having a lot of second thoughts about my stand on these forced-search ptr sites. The more I think about this, the more I find myself Questioning What exactly it is that I'm doing.

This is gpf. GPF Clearly 'supports' the sites that are being discussed here in this thread. So Why am I here 'condemning' the Very Sites, in the Very Forum, where those Same Sites are deemed 'Acceptable'. Something seems amiss here.

Perhaps these forced-search sites Are violating se tos. And perhaps I might choose to take a 'stand' against such sites, That part, seems somehow 'sane' at minimum. But for me to be Taking that Stand, Here, in the forum that is supporting them, and deeming them to be engaging in acceptable practice, well, that seems mucked up, or something.

gpf houses Discussion, downline builders, advertising venues, advertising results access, amoung other favorable facilitations to the continued success of the forced-search sites, so what am I accomplishing Here, condemning them. It really, the more I ponder this, appears I've got it all wrong.

The poor saps that, (like I myself some months back), cannot afford to Feed themselves, NEED these sites, they are the best money in ptr. Now that doesn't, to me at least, 'justify' these sites, but This, gpf, IS the 'home' of the sites Those People Frequent, Depend on for updates, information, etc., on these Very kind of sites.

If my Primary Purpose in discussion of these sites, is Not toward the end of having gpf Itself Ban them, then I really Need to get a grip on what Other Good, besides increasing their Membercounts, via bumping this thread yet again, I am accomplishing.

The numbers have it, that the Best thing I could Possibly Do, to further MY 'agenda' on this issue, is to Shut Up.

Actually, if the person advertising on the ppc search engine was an affiliate of that lamp store and not the owner, then that person will not have made anything from you and your friends bookmarking that site. A lot of sales online are made thro affiliates, and these cookies do have an expiry date. In some cases, like Amazon, the cookie expires in 24 hours.



Does Coke pay people to view their ads on TV? Are you getting paid to read those flyers advertising re-roofing? In fact, as I am eco-concious, I usually use these kind of flyers to scribble on, or clean up something, or to make paper mache...

And this, is what makes paid-to-read different from the rest of the world - cos we are being paid for it.

So whats the difference between a program forcing searches and a program forcing donations?

obviously alot.

My 2 cents?

If you search with having no intention of buying or really interested, then you are stealing from the SE's

If you click the link and don't search, you are stealing from the ptr's advertiser.

Either way you are a theif.

Solution?

Ban search engines altogether on ptr sites.

But because I like to throw spanners into the works:

What about the PTR owners who also have SE's who are forcing searches.

Who is really wrong?. The PTR? or The SE.

Another solution : stop sending paid emails for search, only free ones to members that opted in, or build a Search ?ge where you can search when you want (Advertiser paying to be on the page without result guaranteed)
Pretty sure that such page would have more success than just banning all SE.
SE will be happy to have real traffic and only interested searchers

JMO

Cheers,
Gray Eminence

My belief if someone is an affiliate of a site such as amazon, walmart, etc..........they shouldn't be wasting their money on ppc search engine listings.

Using the example of the lamp, regardless of who received credit for the lamps being sold "Someone" made sales as a direct result of someone doing a search from an advertiser of a search portal at a PTR Program.

While Coke may not pay us directly to watch their television commercial, they do in a sense pay out to consumers via coupons, winning free things when you are lucky enough to get a winning lid, etc.............

Yes PTR is different but not all that different from the rest of the world..........it is still a dog eat dog world.

The bottom line here is "IF" the Search Engine Owners were so concerned about PTR members clicking on their pages.................they would have banned them completely.

It's a big vicious circle............and the only ones that can stop it are the engines themselves by not accepting anyone and everyone to be an affiliate to advertise the portals to obtain click thrus on those bidded slots.

Better yet.............the ones paying "Pay Per Click" Search Engine owners for positions on the results page when a search is done................could get rid of the entire vicious circle by NOT paying the PPC SEs for listings anymore.

No more advertisers = no more need for these so called PPC SE = no more need to be concerned about crappy PTR traffic.

Until PTR traffic becomes a true loss for these PPC SE..........the feeding circle will continue.

My point exactly (although my "water seeks its own level bit may have been confusing...lol).

The advertisers who pay the SearchEngines to bid on placement for the campaign will stop purchasing from them eventually if their results do not meet a certain level (whatever threshold they have set for themselves).

Eventually, that 10cent bidder will either never bid again or never pay more than 5cents. The second place bidder will now not have to pay 9 cents but only pay 6 cents for top spot.

Downward the price goes until either there are no advertisers left bidding or the bid is so low the advertisers feel they can still turn a profit.

How many times have we heard members of this forum complain that the earnings per valid search these days are WAY DOWN from a year ago?

That is why...these advertisers have "found a level" at which they can live with the cost.

This doesn't pertain to simply search bids by the way. We can see it reaching other CPC and CPM campaigns from 3rd party advertisers as well...We can see it from regular DIRECT advertisers to our sites.

Believe me when I say, advertisers would LOVE to spend money at our sites, no matter HOW MUCH it costs. There are advertisers out there with budgets exceeding $20,000 per month JUST FOR advertising their products/services.

How many of our sites have these advertisers? I am guessing a big fat zero.

Why? Because none of our sites can give them the "return on investment (ROI)" that they seek.

Again, EVERYONE in this industry is responsible for the current state of affairs and the price per click that we operate.

Rod

Okay, now that we seem to close to back on topic, let me say that I have banned these domains from my search engines and have banned the advertisement of these sites on my PTRs.

Andrea

Shouldn't you also be looking into the programs that don't send searches to members who don't search? (i.e have search selected, but just click)

Isn't that a kind of incentive?

you search, you get mails?

Classical and Gain group come to mind.

Also would it not be a better thing to actually talk to the owners of these sights first before banning across the board?

There have been unaware ptr owners before, also owners who have been misunderstood.

well then PETROMAILS had best be on your list too......

Do you think you need search every day?
But as a member of many ptr sites, you need to read a lot of search ads. you read search ads is for getting money, not for you are really interested. right?
If someone do need use different engines to search some thing day and day, he/she must be mad.

Do you think you need use so called "ppc se" to seach some thing?
My question is: Why not to use google and yahoo... they are most powerful and effective!

In fact, almost all traffics from ptr sites(should include PECOMail ) are incentive traffics, whatever the owner force/encourage their members to search or not. it is a opened secret.

All the ppc se and ptr owners are playing a game together. when they throw stones to each other, the game is nearing end.

At CM members are feel free to search or not (you can ask most of our members to see how is the % they perform valid searches and how many emails they receive), the only group we decide to exclude is those who choose to participate in searches but never perform 1 valid search (sorry i don't want to mention "valid" as searches should be depending on the interest), are they honest, NOPE! (Even we have 2 searches options).

So please don't mislead others and there has been several reasons of not receiving emails like proxy users, clicked the cheat link...etc...

I don't really believe that a site that forces members to search as it can not be forced at all, at least you can choose to quit, then report them to SE and Feeds, and such sites must have a very decent valid % like 80% or 100%, but we don't have, most sites don't have either.

Thanks!

[PS: Public posting admin note will result in deletion of account, it is clear stated on CM TOS]

and posting about your admin mails is results for deletion??? YOU THINK THAT IS HONEST???

I did send out note about this before inserting this rule into TOS, i don't feel i am not honest, it's our privacy, which should be respected.

Thank for the understanding!


Edit to correct spelling.

pppfffttt...glad i'm not in YOUR program! and never will be! hope they add your name to sites that should be banned!

Never mind, And they have no reason to ban us since we never violate their TOS.

no? you just restrict what anybody can say about you.....or you'll DELETE them...

Funny, it's TOS, members must agree before join, and do you mind that your private emails to be posted in public? The admin note is the private emails between members and me.

Care on others feeling please!

I don't want to talk on this more since you don't know how i treat my members, i love them and i think they love the site also, that's enough!

It doesnt matter I was the one who posted the admin and I was the one who asked for clarification because I didnt understand what it meant in the admin email and yes I was the one who was deleted for doing just that.
Another site hasnt sent me any emails since I posted in this thread maybe I should just go ask for it to be closed but people are voicing their opinions and having a discussion so why should I do that.

well I'll NEVER join this one, I'm sorry they screwed you over...but they're not honest one bit....

I would be appreciate that if you can edit your post (remove the admin note) then i will pay you all your earnings to let you decide by yourself of stay or quit.

Have a good day.

Well at least you admit that you force searching (YEs, excluding members does amount to forced searching, no matter which angle you look at it from)

What is of interest is how do you know if a member is searching or not?

Surely you would not do something as illegal as IP Tracking?

Cos if you are, expect a knock on your door any day, as it's is a federal offence.

I hope they leave it here...you're making yourself look REAL good alpes.....LOLOL

We don't use IP track, if you have any evidence of that just file a report or take some legal action against us.

And it belongs to site confidentiality, sorry i couldn't tell more.

Thanks!

I am doing what i have been doing. I don't care what comment you would leave on me, but your post would probably lower yourself in some way.

I will not talk to you anymore.

Thanks


Edit to correct spelling again

I hope this doesnt turn into a bashing of a site that wasnt the intentions of this thread at all. I have admitted to breaching the terms by posting the admin I was deleted for that reason so please lets not turn it into a fight. If other members of this forum think that i should remove the admin or I have broken any rules of the forum then let me know and I will consider removing the admin.

QUOTE

But it does affect on our search result, so i would like to ask the members who perform 100% valid searches on other site but did 0% at CM to not even join Classical-Mail, because it will only bring us the debt, for such members, the only action we can take is to not send emails anymore.

For our own loyal members, we also consider to send out extra bonus, thank you for your long-term support.

That is not only forcing (you don't serach you get no mails), but also incenitiving (we also consider to send out extra bonus)


THat is against the TOS of every SE

So you are not respecting their TOS, why should Strolly or any other of your members respect yours?

How you are managing to know who searches and who doesn't, well I'll let you tell the powers that be that little story.

The clock is ticking.

let me Guess, when you're not Deleting your members for letting the cat outta the bag, you do Public Relations Work for Other ptr sites....

roflmao, Only in GPF

Loyal doesn't mean "to do valid searches everytime". Maybe i am stupid and use English incorrectly.

If you think it is then just let it be, and feel free to complain against us.

But i didn't force them to search at all.

So not sending them emails if the don't search is not forcing?

LMAO boy I'm so HURT you aren't gonna talk to me anymore! you've already exposed yourself, no need to talk to me!

Ok, just ask those who post they have been paid about how many searches they perfomred? and how many emails they receive.

I don't go to explain more, the story of CM part is clear.

I choose to quit this topic.

Have a nice day

LOL a deer caught in the headlights!

*HUGS* I would hope that it woudnt either but it seems there are a few with an ax or twice to grind.

These owners have been talked to most don't care is why they are on this list. And sites you have mentioned will be looked into if one can send me or any other person here proof that they are doing such.

Actaully traffic from sites like mine (any of them) is not incentive traffic as we are not paying them to search, we are paying them to visit the portal just like any other ad that goes out. You are being paid to view the page. If you choose to do a search it is YOUR CHOICE My sites do not force searching, do not take away earnings for not searching and pay you whether you opted in for searches or not. The difference with my sites and sites like my site is we follow the RULES


Edited to Add: Since Alp Openly admits his site does not send search emails unless members are actively searching his site will be added to this list at my site.

Please don't pretend to prove youself are most honest. I saw you are selling 1 and 2 cents search ads at your advertising page. You set so high value on a search ad, do you think you are trying to make your members to give MORE valid searchs? if it is not "incentive", what should be called?

I offer those search ads but ask any of my members I do not send many of those as advertisers are not willing to pay for those. I don't sell many 1 and 2 cent any ads. So not sure what you are trying to insinuate? Just cause I offer them does not mean I sell them. I offer what advertisers "Might" want to purchase. It does not mean they do. Most of the ads on any of my sites are 1/4 cent, cheap links and points.

So the new list should be:

pecomail.com
pecomail.com
pecomail.com
pecomail.com
pecomail.com
pecomail.com
pecomail.com
pecomail.com
pecomail.com

I am not sure why me offering ads has anything to do with this list. I am not forcing searches nor am I breaking the terms of service at the search engines by offering ads at the pricing I do. So if you are trying to discredit me by all means go ahead but I don't fit into these categories.

AND petromails AND classical mails...

ohhhhh, That's Gotta Sting P. rofl, can't stop rofl. sorry, Made MO's day.

yy3832732, it's a Typo, Correct ?
you Meant to write Petromails, Correct ?

rofl, if No, this List, is about to get Rather Loooooooooong, lol.

Your explanation only can satisfy yourself, but we are not children. as I said at my first post of this topic. nobody can really have interests on so much search ads daily. on some points, you send so much search ads to them is forcing too.

BTW, I think you are not a judge, even you are, you should follow some steps. without investigation on both complaint and site owner, how can you post the site list here?

I suggest you should focus on your own sites management, all the sites you running are so poor.

Perhaps they don't need this many searches a day but the topic is not about how many searches a day a program sends. It is about programs forcing their members to search, not paying them if they don't and forming elite groups for those who search, as well as those who don't send mails to members unless they do.

I am not going to get into a pissing contest with you about whether I should send searches or not. At this time I am not breaking the rules of the search engines so I do not fit into this category. And why is this subject such a sore one with you? Are you one of the program owners listed?

As for proof and investigation. These sites I do have proof on as well as have investigated. There are other sites pending on this list. But they have not randomly been choosen to be spiteful. They were put on this list because there is proof and fact that they have forced searches. Classical admitted himself in this thread if they don't do a valid search they don't receive searches.

Whether I send searches or to many or what my ad pricing is has nothing to do with this topic as I have not broken the rules of the search engines.

And MO laugh away it doesn't bother me that I have been targetted cause I know what I do is honest and I know what I do is right. If the search engine owners told me right now to stop sending searches I would. I try very hard to stay within the guildelines of things to keep my programs running honestly. So as long as I know what I am doing is right I don't care if some want to try and label me because they are upset.

Something tells me Priestes that the ones doing the labeling are well connected with certain other programs

Yes mylife I figured as much. I am sure that those affiliated and earning from these sites are not happy. But they shouldnt be to concerned about my small sites banning them. I dont have that many members I really shouldn't make that much of a difference in their memberbases or their programs.

I don't see where Classical Mail admitted such thing and I don't think they should be on the list as they do not form special groups for people that search nor do they force anyone to search.

The way I understood Alpes' post is that he's targetting search ads to members who actually have an interest in them. I think there is a difference.

No, he sends ads to people who do valid searches. If you don't he excludes you from them reguardless if you have them selected.

So, if you don't make a valid search, you don't get.

If you do make a valid search, you do get.

That is forcing by stealth and also incenitivsing by stealth.