I'm gold member of AYS PTR. I had finally got the check from AYS for waiting about 10 months. then I entrusted the bank to collect the check for me. but I got a telephone from the bank the day before yesterday. the clerk of the bank told me that there is no money in the AYS bank account. It is really a huge joke.

so I post at the AYS forum. and got my account deleted. just because I gave an ad to my best friend on 4th July. I myself have already quitted from PTR industry for a long time. so this ad is no use for me. I got the check on 2nd June. It's more than one month earlier than I gave the ad to my friend.

In order to let every friends to see the conduct made of AYS clearly, I have already posted it at sevral forums.


http://www.9i8.net/cgi-bin/topic.cgi?forum...pic=9623&show=0

sorry I can't read anything in this forum you posted the link..I'm not chinese...

ays forum has already banned me and I can't post anything at all. I have also posted it at chinese forum and has the same content and also the check I got from ays. but I can't upload the check here.
Thank you for your concern.

Can anyone get into the AYS forum and see what is going on? The check bounced? Is that what you're saying? That is so wrong.

1. You're not banned from AYS forum so that's a plain LIE
http://www.allyousubmitters.com/forums/ind...p?showuser=4446 (the link to your forum user info and as far as I can see you're not in "banned" group)

2. It's against TOS to redeem for somebody else without prior permission from admin. Here's the link to the thread for those who's interested know THE TRUTH:
http://www.allyousubmitters.com/forums/ind...?showtopic=8288


Have a nice day/night
Tati

But, how do you explain for the check without money in it?

Did you read the thread? It's been explained by Admin:

one more question to Tatirog

I've just read the post at AYS forum, how do you judge that the ad is his friend's?
Just by the ref id?
It's possible that I have a username on this PTR site and another one on another.

BTW, what do you mean by reissue?
You mean there's something wrong when you first issued the check?
How can that happen?

You didn't read it careful:

It means they were going to send him another check

Quote from ADMIN:



I don't know

I understand what you mean now,Tatirog.

But as my point of view, being deleted by giving out ads should not be related with payment cancelled....

It should be two different things. First, he requested payment and received the check, then he gave the ad to his friend. You can delete him due to his giving out ad but you should not cancel his payment since your payout is slow and there's really been a long time since he requested payment.

BTW, I read the post on the Chinese forum, Terry925 also lost some money as a bank fee. I feel sorry for him. It's really ridiculous to lose real money on a PTR site just because giving out an ad.

If it's the admin's fault to issue a non-money check to the member and this did cause the member a loss, admin should have something to do with this.

Very well said: from YOUR point of view, how about program owner's point of view?
He doesn't want to pay somebody who cheated him (and he was lucky to catch him cheating BEFORE he sent him another check.

Does he (as a program owner) have a right to do so? I believe yes, you believe no.
And we both are entitled to our opinions. But at the end of the day it's not our opinions that count.

Tati

[quote=QUOTE(Tatirog @ Aug 18 2004, 04:59 PM)
1. You're not banned from AYS forum so that's a plain LIE
http://www.allyousubmitters.com/forums/ind...p?showuser=4446 (the link to your forum user info and as far as I can see you're not in "banned" group)
[/quote]

i don't know why I can only login but can't post there.I got this erro when i posted:

Sorry, an error occurred. If you are unsure on how to use a feature, or don't know why you got this error message, try looking through the help files for more information.

The error returned was:

Your posting permissions have been remove

That probably (I'm not sure) means that you're on "moderating mode".
Listen I might feel sorry for your loss but you shouldn't have been breaching TOP (which you did). Why not admit it an take responsability for your action?


Tati

I can't believe what I'm reading here!

AYS delete a member for redeeming what was rightfully his!
Just because he decided to give his ad to someone else!

Oh come on, in what way does this constitute cheating?
What effect does this have on AYS?
AYS still deduct the money for the ad, the ad gets sent out, everyones happy.

Except AYS of course, what a fantastic new way you have found not to pay members, another way to go along with the $50 cheat links and all the rest of the pathetic excuses AYS have used to try not to pay people or delay paying people.

Payment cheques bounce! Wow, at least AYS can get another month of breathing space before they send replacement cheques eh!

I hate to say this but refusing to reissue a bounced check is totally illegal.
It is also very immoral and no amount of B/S from the AYs supporters can
defend this without making themselves look totally and utterly biased.
The AYs situation gets more pathetic and desperate everyday.
I watch with great interest the next few postings defending this blatent fraud.
The depths to which some of them will sink is astounding.

AYS members do get paid - the honest ones that is.

Redeming ad for a friend is against TOS - going against TOS forfeits ALL earnings, pending or otherwise in all ptr's - so what is the big hazzle about?

TOS was broken period.

I love you too (didn't know I was sinking somewhere but thank you for pointing it to me)
Have a nice day/night


Tati

There is the first one LOL.
Blatently defending the undefendable.
Disgusting really.

this AYS thing is getting really ridicolous

theyre trying to get the debt of this site lower and lower by anyway they could

cheat links, bounced check which is very illegal (i know someone that's been in jail for 3 years because of one bounced lousy check), making up all these tos rules that dont make sense etc

everyone should stop supporting ays, sooner or later it will be gone with all your money, as this ptr can no longer pay all the members with the ridicoulos underselling of ads

Yep, we're gonna get hammered now!

And nailed, and the entire world educated about the worst of the PTR's around!!!
What is it gonna be now? 1001st time? Anybody counting?

I can't believe you're going to tell the entire world about AYS!

OK, the important thing to note here is that AYS is knowingly sending out payments that they know there is not enough funds to cover.

A bounced cheque has nothing to do with cheating and everything to do with the integrity of the company issuing it.

This also lets the program members know that AYS either does not have (or can't get) a line of credit, or they have fully extended themselves.

Most banks charge the depositor a fee when a cheque bounces. Will AYS make good on those charges as well?

I agree with you.

This is my opinion about this whole mess.

Because in middle August, AYS cheque bounced due to insufficent funds, the op posted in AYS forum.

The result of the op post in AYS forum from what I have read in the AYS forum seems to be the following:

- a statement by AYS admin that there was a slight problem with transfer of funds
- a second check of the op AYS account and activities since the issuance of the payout cheque.
- a decision from AYS admin not to reissue the op's cheque
- a suspension of the op's AYS account

Let's put this in perspective. If the AYS cheque to the op had had sufficient funds, he would have cashed the cheque and consequently it means that he would have been paid by AYS.

His giving his redemption ad to his friend would have been dealt as a separate matter and would have probably resulted in his ad being deducted from his account and not running in the program and of his AYS account being deleted. The op's action about his redemption ad broke the TOS of AYS.

But because AYS did not have funds in the bank to cover the cheque issued to the op, the op ended up with no payout payment, no redemption ad, no more member's account at AYS and more importantly being penalized for an action that happened in the future. The future meaning after he was paid.

When anybody issues a cheque, it means that the intent to pay that day is present. The AYS WM intented to pay the op on June 2, 2004 because he had reached payout, requested it, been an honest member and had his account thorougly checked. But, 2 months later the same WM refuses to pay the op.

Payments of anything is done and sealed by the issuance of the payment, by cheque or otherwise, not when the other person cashes the cheque. Not in my book, it's not. You don't agree to pay a member then 2 months later go back on your word because, see, the member did something wrong 1 month or 2 after you had effectively paid him.

edited for a typo.

Wow.

I bounced a check once. I had made a transfer to savings and forgot to record it. (I didn't have that "protection" that covers me in event a check comes through that can't be covered.)

I'm really glad the credit card company didn't tell my my "integrity" was at stake, or have someone call me each and every month to make sure I was making payments because my "integrity" was then worthless. One $15.00 charge and that was the end of it.

Dang.

~ Ambrie ~

Whatever the subject or whoever is right or wrong,

Maybe someone should start a book here and take bets
on who will be reading or typing in the thread , If its about Ays,
lmao

The whole point Ambrie is that the bank charged the guy who deposited the check because the issuer did not have enough funds. Ays then refuses to make good the fees incurred by their funding problems
All I know is that if you pulled that stunt in Australia, you would be fronting the magistrate about a week after you did it.
Trouble is the OP is from China so no-one, gives a stuff about the rights of him/her.
Not only is it a clear case of fraud, AYs knows it can get away with it because laws from their country do not apply to China.
Try doing it to someone in their own country and lets see the fun that would result then.
Bottom line is that what AYs has done is criminal.
Big difference between a mistake and fraud don't you think?

I'm on the fence I guess. I don't think it's right to break terms or cheat at ANY time. So, if *I* screwed up with a program and ended up in Terry's situation, I'd expect to be called out on it. The Fee? Yes, I think that should be reinstated.

On a side note, saying the OP is from China and no one gives a stuff about their rights is just a big assumption on your part and really has no relevance.

This is one of those situations though that looks like it has a history. This was posted as well: "In combination of all of the above - and - in addition - your complete AYS history - your payment will NOT be reissued." To me that sounds like there's other issues with this person as WELL as the redeeming ads for someone else. Sooo...maybe the entire story isn't out there for everyone to see?

Just a thought.

~ Ambrie ~

Ugh... AYS should at least pay for the fees incurred by the bounced cheque? It's NOT the OP's fault that the cheque bounced, and the cheque bouncing has nothing to do with his clicks or breaking the TOS at AYS PTR. Forfeit his earnings due to breaking the TOS, I understand (even though I don't think it's fair since it occured AFTER the first cheque was issued, which means the OP should've been paid). But to put the blame on the OP by not paying for the fees DUE to the bounced cheque... oy.

i see still tons of ****** defend AYS,
- even if they delete members for nothing (how can they know who used redeem, maybe same member have different usedname in other program he advertised)
- they send $50 cheat links, this is really stupid, work for ages and then they delete all cash for one wrong click
- send fake cheat links to get more honest members to click by mistake
- don`t pay for over 10 months (with prices they have this is of course expected)
- when they pay they don`t have cash in account
ECT; ECT; ECT; ECT; ECT;

so you don`t support unsustainable sites in general, but ays is good, even if it is worse than them all, and it was infact first who started to ruin all industry

YES, I BELIVE AYS IS GUILTY FOR RUINING GET PAID TO INDUSTRY AS A WHOLE

Good I deleted my account abouth a year ago

but i see still 30k peoples don`t see the obvious

You forgot to add they delete members for speaking their mind.

So the TOS says you cannot redeem an ad for anyone else but yourself. Does the TOS have anything about AYS checks bouncing? I'm just guessing NO.

Now which seems worse to everyone? Redeeming an ad for a friend, or getting a check 10 months after request that bounces? Answer honestly.

Jim

i think we all agree on this
even bigest AYS supporters must admit this site is bigest scam ever

I doubt very much you will get AYS supporters to admit anything, their account would be in jeopardy then, LOL.

On a side note Ambrie is right about the history comment, we do not know the whole story

Still does not give the site a right to bounce checks on people and refuse to pay
the fees incurred.

I also hate cheats Ambrie but this fiasco makes AYs look like the cheats, not the OP.

Also just a thought.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, Another AYS BASHFEST!! Alright! Something to get peoples blood pumping. What WOULD they do otherwise? Oh, JMO

I can understand AYS suspending his account for breaking TOS but Linder makes such an issue about taking time to check accounts I have a hard time believing he issued a check if the OP wasn't OWED a check. If your honest you pay what you owe without making excuses and if your mistake, NFS, costs someone else you take care of it. If AYS supporters think calling AYS to task for costing a member money is bashing IMO thier wrong and so in this case is AYS.

Did you even read what this thread is about?

Or do you think it is alright to send a cheque without funds to cover it?

I agree totally with what Ambrie said.
Especially about the fee being reinstated.

And I would like to think that no POs decision is based on which country a member is from but rather on that members conduct .

A question for us to just think about .....
How many times have we all paid for a service that was substanded ?
If you knew before you paid ,would you have paid ?
From my own personal experience the answer is NO .

Have you never made a mistake? Has your bank never made a mistake? Has AYS said they would not refund the fees incured? Ambrianna why do we bother?

AYS Admin sure seem to put a lot of time and energy into catching all the nasty little cheaters that break the Terms, don't they?

Which I might be inclined to think was a good thing, except for the fact that they don't seem to give a stuff about actually following the Terms themselves.

Must be nice to be sooooo powerful that the rules don't apply to you.

Months late with payments? So what! If you don't like it, quit!

Come in our forum and post something we don't like? You're banned! (I'm still looking for that "No Snotty Comments" Rule! )

Post something we don't like in another forum because you think we can't control what you say there? How about a FINE! What? There's nothing in the Terms about fines for "forum abuse"? How'd you like another one? That's not a threat. You'd better show me some RESPECT!

Nothing in the Terms about having to pay the fees when we bounce a check? Too bad! Deal with it! Consider yourself deleted!

You DARE to suggest that somebody associated with our program might have something to do with the fact that our members were spammed? Better watch out for my lawyer, you trouble-maker!

Don't like it when your personal information is posted in a public forum? Privacy Policy? What Privacy Policy? I will not apologize!

I wonder how much worse it'll get?

Cheers,

Wil

If you think it's this bad, are you still a member, Wil?

~ Ambrie ~

I was the last time I checked.

Cheers,

Wil

Okay.

~ Ambrie ~

So what's your point, do you think Wil should quit and foreit earnings? This is not about who is or isn't a current member. This is about ays abusing members. They not only owe the fee, they should reissue the check, this time with money to cover it.

I never posted my point. I'm sure you didn't see it anywhere. There was something I was going to ask Wil, but I can't get the wording quite right. I figured it was best to let it go until I can word what I want to say correctly.

Had I known I was going to get questioned on it by someone else, I would've posted all that right away.


~ Ambrie ~

I told myself I wouldn't say anything else, but, what the hey.

YUP! I read it. And no, I don't. But, also read that Sharon admitted there was a problem, and they had made moves to correct that. IMO, Enough said.

I ALSO read the person broke the TOS. I don't care WHAT site it is. If you are conniving and cheating, and breaking the sites TOS, then the PO has the right to take steps to see you do not get rewarded for it, up to and including any monies you have earned, or requested payout on. People should NOT get to be rewarded for STEALING, and CHEATING a program, and its owner, and the other members. PERIOD. Oh, wanted to add, as for the FEE the member had to pay? Well, as far as I am concerned, when you cheat and steal, you PAY, one way or another. A bitter lesson, but, perhaps, one well learned.

And THAT is what "I" think when I read this thread, and the dozens of others that crop up like weeds in a field.