On a happy note:
Pinkbike's Praise - HONEST WEBMASTERS who will pay!

Now for the not so good about PTRs:

Attention: We need to put a stop to SCAMmasters who DO NOT PAY!

I am very dissatisfied with some of these PTR owners! I have tried to be civilized and contact them about why I have not been paid but I got no response from ANY of them!

I hope they don't think by ignoring the problem it will go away. We need to be PAID and I will contact all agencies I can think of to stop these thieves.

Now since none of know for sure where some of these Webmasters are actually located; contacting the Better Business Bureau, Federal Trade Commission, and Internet Fraud Centers will do no good if the webmaster lives outside the United States.

A regular employer cannot hold his/her employees paycheck for months or even worse not pay them at all so why do these PTR owners think this type of behavior is acceptable?

I sat down and thought long and hard on who we can contact...

There is strength in numbers my friends and we can make a difference. If it has been more than 30 days (or whatever the terms are for a particular website) you can report them to the owners of PayPal, Egold, Money Bookers, etc...

When I request a payout I make a note of the actual day that I requested so that I will know for certain once 30 days has passed...

However, I give each WM the benifit of the doubt and wait 60 days before filing a complaint, meaning that my payment was 30 days (over a month) overdue!!! 2 monthis is way to long to wait for payment! Chances are they will not pay you, but hopefully we can shut them down.

For example: I have reported a few websites to the owners of PayPal (since this is my payout method) to let them know what's going on. Hopefully if enough people do the same their accounts will be terminated and banned so they can no longer hurt us innocent people.

Best Wishes,
PINKBIKE

Extra Note:
If you have any useful tips on taking a stand please post them here. We do not need to tolerate being ripped off anymore!!!

Good luck with yuor quest. I hope you succeed.

getting their payment processors suspended only means that there is no way they can pay... it gives them an even better excuse

Alas....

There is nothing to be done. Haven't you seen the numerous posts about trying to do something, trying to think of a way, trying to think of someone to contact? All anyone with the unmitigated gall to suggest such a thing ever gets is badgered into the ground about the government not caring so why bother, anything you do will just ensure no payments, etc.

I say, let's all just continue the way we are. Do not ever say a word or make a report to anyone about anything. We should just be happy that they allow us the opportunity to make POs some money. It does no good to fight for our rights. We should all remain lambs and follow the flock wherever it leads, and with our mouths shut.

*please note above drips with sarcasm*

Mind you, the only failure is the one never attempted. If no first step is ever taken, no change of direction can be made.

Of course, there are those that hope nothing ever changes. This allows them and their cohorts to continue their thievery without fear of reprisal.

I say, GO FOR IT!

I have quite a collection of webmasters true locations...

Okay 2, but it's a start.

Both start with A and they are both in sunny states...

Also the only real way to stop them is report them to payment processors and sue them in small-claims court.

Read the websites use illegal terms thread for more info.

Well, there are a few things that could be done from a member and WM stand point.
First - If you belong to a known scam - stop using it for cheap advertising no matter how good the results are. By doing so you are only allowing the WM to keep up his/her charade. If there is no advertising going in we make it that more difficult for the bad WM to keep up the act. Granted, there are always newbies who get suckered into the programs (like I was 5 months ago), but they will learn.
Second - if a WM and his/her site was on good enough standings that they could BAN advertising from certain known scam sites - they should! I understand most probably need what ever advertising that they can get to make revenue - but heck if you could ban it would really help! ***For example E2A (before they went ads only) should NOT have been advertised at legit sites. Again we would make it that much harder for the bad WM to keep up the charade.
If the bad WM has no advertising coming in and has limited ways of bringing in new members eventually the site would fall apart.

Now they next thing - How do you choose which sites are banned... I guess it would be up to each WM (if they could even afford it) to make that decision. But in reading this forum there are sites that everyone knows are scams and then those that are a big controversy. ***And as a side note - the sites that are big controversy's - can't we just agree to disagree!***

I don't know - it's just my two cents.

Have a great day.

mommyoncemore said the truth. If everyone would just ignore the scam sites they would have to go away. Also , do your reaearch on a program before you join and don't join every new site that opens jsut to get in early and build a downline.Check out all the details such as sustainability and how high is the payout? and how much is each ad worth. All these things tell you right away if a site is likely to just take the money and run.

Oh,You have done a good job for all of us.

I have a number of ideas, which would involve the cooperation of the members, the honest WMs and the moderators of this and any other forum, but it would put the scammers out of business.

1. Register honest websites with GPF.
2. Honest WMs to advertise GPF regularly in their paid links.
3. A WM cooperative, where they can check for cheats etc
4. The mods at GPF to set up a different format forum regarding sites.
5. Honest members to advertise only honest sites.
6. WMs to refuse advertising from cheats.
7. WMs to refuse advertising of scam sites.
8. Definitions to be drawn up of what a scam site is.
9...................

Well if any one, especially the mods who do such a good job here, wants details, they can contact me if they want.
But I can guarantee that if my thoughts were followed, no member of GPF would ever be scammed again.

Actually, I saw something the other day that I am going to put on my website as well.
Many of us use various ways to advertise. This site was promoting ones that the site owner thought were excellent, and paid. BUT, he also had a page that listed "scams"
Sites that were known scams or had been taking WAYYYYY too long to pay or not paid at all.

It's not just long term clickers that need to understand who the scam artists are. It is new people coming in to PTR. It is NEW people who are joining such unsustainable newer sites like "Banana mails"

I also think linking our pages to GPF, where new people can get info on their own would help. When I was new and in several unsustainables, I had no idea this forum exisited.

Coming here when I first started would have saved me two or three months of clicking for scammers.

God bless
Angelsj

I can feel your frustration....and while I think it is a good idea to link to this forum, and to link to sites that explain "sustainable" stuff...it is also unrealistic to expect this forum and the mods to "police" ptr..

they aren't going to do it I am pretty sure..and anyhow it is really hard to do...

things change so rapidly..

as for sustainable?? yes, knowing what to look for and what to watch out for is very important..

but then you never know....recently several "sustainalbe " sites run by really "popular" nice, fun sweet wm and hubby just up and bolted owing a lot of people money *do a search on cooking4cash..

Getpaidboycott forum has proven to be pretty weak I think..they rightfully IMHO put ays on their list, it was 5 months behind...but then they chickened out and withdrew it....7 months behind now...and ays is still not on their list..to me they are a joke

as for a big list of sites to not allow??? well....that can get pretty complicated too....sites change day to day...some sites have viable ad prices but are cutting deals right and left in auctions...and again, you simply can not tell what people will do...

one site awhile back, diamondrain was really popular fast, "great wm"....she also went out and bought a new computer/the works with her first money in...and then did a fast runner...so who knows???

besides asking wm to play "detective/judge/jury" is pretty hard...and to people "outside' of the ptr world it may look unprofessional...

(and it also can actually give sites more traffic and publicity LOL> I know that for a fact tee hee)

well...I am rambling on...but....my next post will be some things I think you can do

HI....here I am again...this time with "ideas"...

one of the most important things you can do is investigate the "whois' of each and every site you join..

signup for a free membership at http://www.whois.sc

you will learn all sorts of fascinating facts...

save the page the day you join....or copy/paste the info into a file of all the sites you are on...with the date...be sure to get the wm email addy too...

yes...some sites will register by "proxy"...JMO that is fine for a site about kids/or child support or a site that supports abused women...for the rest of us who want to run a business?? LOL> no proxy regs....and I would not join a site that hides behind them JMO

if things go "bad" for the site one of the first things the wm will do is play with the reg info...that is why it is great to have a backup of it..

and....should the wm delete his info, or put fake info in...you can report it to internic...and they will require the wm to put correct info back in within 10 days...or they pull the domain !

My best advice for you To Contact your Local Government and Senator.

Actually, I wasn't talking about having this forum police anything. This forum is real time info.
And I don't believe everything I read here either. Nothing is perfect, but at least it is info. My page includes sites I support for the most part. This is what I use to advertise. I just think you need to let people know who the really obvious scammers are.
Of course, there will always be those who got in over their head, or who come across as really nice, then disappear in a puff of smoke.
But we can at least warn new people about those we already KNOW are scammers.

The forum is just a forum. Lots of people with differing opinions, but there are some things and sites that almost everyone agrees on. That would help new people. I don't think anyone expects the forum or moderators to be cops here. All I can say is that this is a REALLY useful resource for me, and I think it would be for newcomers as well. I found it through a link on someone's advertising page. Just wish I had found it a few months earlier.

God bless
Angelsj

absolutely, if everyone would quit promoting the scams then things would improve a lot.

thank you for putting that link in i see ppl talking about whoising sites, but i didn't know how to do it until now. very helpful!

MikesPaid4Email has stopped accepting advertising for any site paying 5 cents or more per click. While that's maybe not the best criteria to use... I mean, lots of 3 cent sites are unsustainable, and it IS at least theoretically possible someone will create a viable 5 cent site someday... it's an interesting idea. That did hurt their ad sales a bit, I'd think, but I got the impression they felt it was more important for longterm stability.

HI... glad u like the whois ..it is such a help, and really important to keep that info while it is available...LOL>> the pattern is for wm who go in debt to change it.
if they do you can report them to internic and they will be given 10 days to make that info right or internic will take away their domain <grin> just ask scheming missmendy how that works?? LOL

here is the url to report false and fraudulent info to http://wdprs.internic.net/


as for wm being the 'police"...well I think members should also police themselves..

for one thing...join sites that are sustainable and have a fair tos and a way to contact the wm..

another...don't put all your eggs in one basket....like people who are owed by 3, 4, 5 or more of "peggy's" sites???? JMO...if a po has a lot of sites, only belong to one or 2 of them....that way if something goes wrong you won't lose so much

also..dont be afraid to speak out as soon as a site goes over terms...warn other people...

I know it is hard to "lose" ...I have personally lost a lot of $$ from affiliate programs that went bankrupt, closed etc...esp a few years ago....it is hard..but sometimes u have to cut your losses..

It is even harder with the petty tyrants who delete people for speaking their mind..

If you can, redeem for an ad and quit the program...and then let people know what you "really think"....

If a program is holding you "hostage"...go on "vacation" as much as possible....click just what is needed....don't search....and dont promote the program..remove any ref to it from sig, your own website etc...

also....pick and choose who you join under...dont join any program under people who have tons of unsustainable programs in their sig, don't click their sas, and if you have the "stamina" to be called mean, let people know that you wont do these things and why..

for instance...in a thread thatis a "love fest" of sas back and forth LOL>> u could say..."I sass'ed everyone...exept for those people who had links to earnings2all....which I think is a disgraceful program.....and those who have ays in their sig...I just feel 7 months is ridiculous."

If more people were willing to do that, you would see an even bigger exodis from the bad no pay programs....

already I think things are improving , the phoney sites with the big 5 to 10 cent links are not gathering the huge member base they did even 3 or 4 months ago...more people are getting wise to the fact that those programs were unrealistic...all positive signs hth

I think i will take you up on that freebiesite

only think you can do is to get scam webmasters pp/eg/mb ... accounts blocked and shut down they sites ... about geting money ... well if you can find they real address, go to they home and ask for money or take computer or TV as compencation...