I've read the boards for awhile just never registered until now, this is the last straw.
I'm a member of Angelpays which are mostly searches I do searches voluntarily and I don't like to be threatened in to doing them. Well I just got this email no more then 5 minutes ago and I'm totally ticked off by this
Full Version: I cant believe this
| QUOTE |
| We checked our log for valid searches and we found that only 10% doing valid clicks. goes the click true rate not higher ( 80%) we must change to points!! We don't like points and you?? Now it's yours; do valid searches and make money with us ore do nothing and get points. You now the 2cent solo search (20 Clicks) ?? all clicks are down; but only 3 was valid!!!! Think about this Have a great weekend Udo Admin @ Angelpays.com |
It is againt the terms of every search engine out there to do incentive searches. Is is bad enough that there is such things like "paid to search" which are totally wrong but this one is ridiculous! I say do not search and quit this site.
Think about it, by producing fake searches (that is just to get paid) you destroy the system you are part of!
Think about it, by producing fake searches (that is just to get paid) you destroy the system you are part of!
I have a question though. If the advertisers pay money for searches and don't get results, in otherwords lose money on them, do you think they will come back for more. Use your common sense. Most of the earnings are coming from searches.
Its totally against policy to force someone to search, however if your opted in to receive them, well then its only fair you do, do the search. If your not opted in, and still receive them, then its not up to you to do the search.
That letter there is forcing you or face the consequence of points, right there I'd unsub.
I'll do searches where I opt in for them or do admin searches here and there as I know it will help the program Im with in earning money, therefore the PO makes money, the advertiser makes money, which puts money in your pocket at payout.
But force me, and its simple I unsub.
That letter there is forcing you or face the consequence of points, right there I'd unsub.
I'll do searches where I opt in for them or do admin searches here and there as I know it will help the program Im with in earning money, therefore the PO makes money, the advertiser makes money, which puts money in your pocket at payout.
But force me, and its simple I unsub.
I hope you reported that to the search engine. Usually that will stop a webmaster from sending these kinds of e-mails.
| QUOTE (BLUEDAHLIA @ Jun 27 2004, 11:37 AM) |
| I have a question though. If the advertisers pay money for searches and don't get results, in otherwords lose money on them, do you think they will come back for more. Use your common sense. Most of the earnings are coming from searches. |
I just can't buy into this way of thinking. For this to be true, then we all should be expected to sign up for every single PTR we see advertised. After all, unless it was a redemption, somebody paid money for that ad too - right? And the reason they ran the ad for a particular program was in hopes of building their downline which in turn would earn money for them - right?
So if we don't join every single PTR we see advertised in our emails, we're not supporting those advertisers either, are we?
By the same token, if we click on a link knowing it's for a program we're either already in or have seen advertised ad nauseum and have no interest in - that could be considered cheating couldn't it? After all, we're getting paid to click a link knowing that the person who paid for it can't get anything in return for our click.
This all gets so horribly complicated and of course no one is expected to sign up for every PTR (which would be the equivalent of a "valid search").....so why are searches considered such sacred things that must be clicked and followed with a valid search on something....regardless of whether or not we're interested....just because anything less would not be supporting the advertiser?
I've never understood this double standard.
| QUOTE (BLUEDAHLIA @ Jun 28 2004, 12:37 AM) |
| I have a question though. If the advertisers pay money for searches and don't get results, in otherwords lose money on them, do you think they will come back for more. Use your common sense. Most of the earnings are coming from searches. |
yep and what if feeds advertisers get 0 sales from 1000 clicks, you think they will buy more ads? bid values going down last 2 years ... not its 2x-3x lower then it was 2 years ago... and how you thing why its hapening?
If you get a search ad at a PTR, whether you redeem for it or buy it, you should count your blessings for whatever searches you get. People are NOT required to search for you, no matter what the advertiser says, or whether the PO thinks so or not. If you belong to a program where the WM is telling you that you have to search, I'm sure the SE's would love to hear about. (Especially the WM's who are cramming their own search ads down your throat) 
| QUOTE (xCMBx @ Jun 27 2004, 09:08 AM) | ||
|
In this case, however, the WM is not EXACTLY telling his members they have to search. They are being given an option: Either search and get cash, or don't, and get points. So he comes right up to the edge of threatening, while not actually doing it.
kath77 Posted on Jun 27 2004, 04:12 PM
| QUOTE |
I hope you reported that to the search engine. Usually that will stop a webmaster from sending these kinds of e-mails. |
no i havent yet i had deleted all my emails before i had actually read this last one from them.
ilovemy3girls Posted on Jun 27 2004, 06:50 PM
| QUOTE |
| If you get a search ad at a PTR, whether you redeem for it or buy it, you should count your blessings for whatever searches you get. People are NOT required to search for you, no matter what the advertiser says, or whether the PO thinks so or not. If you belong to a program where the WM is telling you that you have to search, I'm sure the SE's would love to hear about. (Especially the WM's who are cramming their own search ads down your throat) |
most ads if not all of them are there own.
ilovemy3girls Posted on Jun 27 2004, 06:53 PM
| QUOTE |
| In this case, however, the WM is not EXACTLY telling his members they have to search. They are being given an option: Either search and get cash, or don't, and get points. So he comes right up to the edge of threatening, while not actually doing it. |
actually they do tell you to search, this is off the website
| QUOTE |
| We don?t tollerant cheater!! We track randomly user and look she have made real searches. If not the user only click for doing nothing and this is cheating!! If we see this 3 times from the same user we delet his account without warning!!! Remains fair and do real and valid searches!!! Thank You. |
i plan to unsub because i feel these people have just gone to far. i opted in to search so i do search i have no problem in doing it but when im threatened into doing it thats it for me. ill take my losses and move on.
Dump it, you deserve better.
No ptre programs should force people to search, it' absolutely optional.
Good luck,
No ptre programs should force people to search, it' absolutely optional.
Good luck,
I wouldn't stay in the program if they are forcing you search. I hating searching,
I'm only a searcher at 2 sites and yes those 2 sites in which i choose to search
i gladly do.
but to be forced to..i wouldn't stay a member..
I'm only a searcher at 2 sites and yes those 2 sites in which i choose to search
i gladly do.
but to be forced to..i wouldn't stay a member..
| QUOTE (BLUEDAHLIA @ Jun 28 2004, 12:37 AM) |
| I have a question though. If the advertisers pay money for searches and don't get results, in otherwords lose money on them, do you think they will come back for more. Use your common sense. Most of the earnings are coming from searches. |
I get so sick of people saying if search advertisers don't get good results, they won't buy any more.
What makes search advertisers any different from any other advertiser?
There is no guarantee when you advertise.
You buy an ad and have it sent so members can see what you have to offer.
If the member is interested, they'll check it out, and if not, they move on.
I guess when I buy my next ad, it'll be:
Only click if your from the US.
If you don't intend to buy anything, don't click the link.
If I don't sale anything, I won't be back to buy more ads.
Remember, more sale means more ads for you which means more money for you.
| QUOTE (xCMBx @ Jun 27 2004, 11:08 PM) | ||
| I've read the boards for awhile just never registered until now, this is the last straw. I'm a member of Angelpays which are mostly searches I do searches voluntarily and I don't like to be threatened in to doing them. Well I just got this email no more then 5 minutes ago and I'm totally ticked off by this
|
I would contact every search engine they advertise on that site and send them a copy of the e-mail.
I'm not a member of that site, or I would do it my self.
These WM/POs have to learn that these search engines are not there to support their PTRs.
If they can't get anything but search ads, they need to close and get out of the PTR biz.
Searches are always a bit complicated.
I understand the owner is worried about the clikthrough , but searching must be asked for. And people should be able to opt in or out to receive them
Then there is off course the quality of the search portal and the advertisers behind it.
If a site tries to dump spyware on my PC, it is blocked from loading. I am not sure if that wll impact the search results but the page is not fully loaded .
I feel I have the right to block spyware at any time.
Then I use Opera. Te latest Opera-version seems to have difficulties with certain frames like Netscape seem to have as well. I would recommend that advertisers test there portals on several browsers just to be sure. ( doing seraches with IE is like playing russian roulette) I was 50% of the time busy virus cleaning.
One other part is the 3 times /24 hrs rule. After doing some searches I end up seeing this page 75% of all cases.
I believe that most people who place search ads, never do searches themselves, since most search portals are really crappy. SOme search portals always work.
So I do not think the members are to blaim. The advertisers also must make sure the Search portal or program has decent qualiity and should be tested before being placed.
I understand the owner is worried about the clikthrough , but searching must be asked for. And people should be able to opt in or out to receive them
Then there is off course the quality of the search portal and the advertisers behind it.
If a site tries to dump spyware on my PC, it is blocked from loading. I am not sure if that wll impact the search results but the page is not fully loaded .
I feel I have the right to block spyware at any time.
Then I use Opera. Te latest Opera-version seems to have difficulties with certain frames like Netscape seem to have as well. I would recommend that advertisers test there portals on several browsers just to be sure. ( doing seraches with IE is like playing russian roulette) I was 50% of the time busy virus cleaning.
One other part is the 3 times /24 hrs rule. After doing some searches I end up seeing this page 75% of all cases.
I believe that most people who place search ads, never do searches themselves, since most search portals are really crappy. SOme search portals always work.
So I do not think the members are to blaim. The advertisers also must make sure the Search portal or program has decent qualiity and should be tested before being placed.
For the record,
Saying to your members "Either do A or B will happen" is a threat.
It's not an evil threat, but the member is stiil being told if he is not searching, he will lose out.
That's a threat.
Sorry, but if I bought 200 visits on a search engine for my home-made cookies, I wouldn't want tons of people who were threatened to look at my cookies. I would want at least SOME cookie shoppers.
Please keep this in mind,
The money in this part of the business comes from the cookie guy, not the search engines.
Keepin' it real,
Joe
Yo, yo, yo LOL
Saying to your members "Either do A or B will happen" is a threat.
It's not an evil threat, but the member is stiil being told if he is not searching, he will lose out.
That's a threat.
Sorry, but if I bought 200 visits on a search engine for my home-made cookies, I wouldn't want tons of people who were threatened to look at my cookies. I would want at least SOME cookie shoppers.
Please keep this in mind,
The money in this part of the business comes from the cookie guy, not the search engines.
Keepin' it real,
Joe
Yo, yo, yo LOL
That's true. But sometimes, even though I'm not in the market for cookies, I may just buy some because they look so good, and I'm hungry at the moment. Soooooo, the more traffic the cookie guy gets, the more chance he has of selling to initially uninteresed shoppers.
And, inasfar as advertising a PTR vs. Search Engine goes, I can only sign up with a PTR site once, but I can search for the same advertiser every day. He comes back, I search, may even buy something from the search, so the cookie guy makes money, the search engine makes money, the PTR site makes money, and hopefully, I will get paid. Sooooooooo where's the downside in this scenerio.
And, inasfar as advertising a PTR vs. Search Engine goes, I can only sign up with a PTR site once, but I can search for the same advertiser every day. He comes back, I search, may even buy something from the search, so the cookie guy makes money, the search engine makes money, the PTR site makes money, and hopefully, I will get paid. Sooooooooo where's the downside in this scenerio.
Even if you opted in to receive search engines, I don't think it means you must do searches.
You are paid to receive sponsored SE not really to search.
That's my thinking, anyway I'm a very searchy member, i do understand the point
I'm I wrong?
You are paid to receive sponsored SE not really to search.
That's my thinking, anyway I'm a very searchy member, i do understand the point
I'm I wrong?
QUOTE(brela101201 @ Jun 27 2004, 04:53 PM)
In this case, however, the WM is not EXACTLY telling his members they have to search. They are being given an option: Either search and get cash, or don't, and get points. So he comes right up to the edge of threatening, while not actually doing it. 
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He was giving an incentive though
He was saying you get money or you get points make your choice.incentive
SYLLABICATION: in?cen?tive
PRONUNCIATION: n-sntv
NOUN: Something, such as the fear of punishment or the expectation of reward, that induces action or motivates effort.
ADJECTIVE: Serving to induce or motivate: an incentive bonus for high productivity.
ETYMOLOGY: Middle English, from Late Latin incentvum, from neuter of incentvus, inciting, from Latin, setting the tune, from incentus, past participle of incinere, to sound : in-, intensive pref.; see in?2 + canere, to sing; see kan- in Appendix I.
Advertising:
Put products on display to attract customers.
Once customer on location, try get a sale.
advertising ≠ sales
NO advertising (any shape or form) means NO sales
Search engine
A mean to find info/product on the internet.
Nowhere have I ever seen a notice such as:
You click, you buy !
PTR + S.E.
A way some people found to make extra money.
-Bidder gets advertised, hope get some sales.
-S.E., we know they are making money on these searches
-Advertiser (one using PTR) will give you up to a cent (1?),
hopefull you will click a 20?, on which he should get no less then 10?
-Member (clicker) trying make a few bucks with the PTRs
Need I say more ?
Put products on display to attract customers.
Once customer on location, try get a sale.
advertising ≠ sales
NO advertising (any shape or form) means NO sales
Search engine
A mean to find info/product on the internet.
Nowhere have I ever seen a notice such as:
You click, you buy !
PTR + S.E.
A way some people found to make extra money.
-Bidder gets advertised, hope get some sales.
-S.E., we know they are making money on these searches
-Advertiser (one using PTR) will give you up to a cent (1?),
hopefull you will click a 20?, on which he should get no less then 10?
-Member (clicker) trying make a few bucks with the PTRs
Need I say more ?
QUOTE
I understand the owner is worried about the clikthrough , but searching must be asked for. And people should be able to opt in or out to receive them
Actually you arent even supposed to ask for searches. People are supposed to search because they WANT to... not because of being asked, or FORCED as this program is doing.
I would dump this site, they will eventually lose thier own account, and any other search advertisers will lose thiers too.
I emailed the site... and this is what I got back from them
We don?t delete member who are not doing searches and we not say to our
member he must search..
We only delete member who click 2 times on a cheat link.
If a member not want to search with us, its ok.
Nice day
Corinna
Admin (AD's) @ AngelPays.com
Just thought I would let you all know this. This is what they are telling me. I emailed them telling them I was considering placing a search ad, but I was afraid of losing my account because they force searches.
We don?t delete member who are not doing searches and we not say to our
member he must search..
We only delete member who click 2 times on a cheat link.
If a member not want to search with us, its ok.
Nice day
Corinna
Admin (AD's) @ AngelPays.com
Just thought I would let you all know this. This is what they are telling me. I emailed them telling them I was considering placing a search ad, but I was afraid of losing my account because they force searches.
I used to search, but now when I have something to search for, I use Google or MSN. These search engines don't have good results that lead me to what I'm looking for. Most of them just lead to "Buy (Keyword) on Ebay" That is so annoying. Not ONCE have I found what I wanted so I gave up. I'll search, but if there is no result that interests me, or looks promising, I don't click on the result.
QUOTE(dpilker @ Sep 9 2004, 07:08 PM)
I used to search, but now when I have something to search for, I use Google or MSN. These search engines don't have good results that lead me to what I'm looking for. Most of them just lead to "Buy (Keyword) on Ebay" That is so annoying. Not ONCE have I found what I wanted so I gave up. I'll search, but if there is no result that interests me, or looks promising, I don't click on the result.
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I hate searches .I have unclicked searches on some sites I belong too.If you have it checked ,that is all they want to send
that reminds me of my decision of deleting account with MEC
an email stating that if we were not to participate in searches, we were not gone make much. Most searches were her own, or her partner something. Been so long.
searchers were even getting further advantages.
I had paid upgrades up to level 9 (not from earnings, from my pocket)
I hate searches, I hate getting only that from a PTR, and I hate even more a PTR site punishing you for not doing searches.
an email stating that if we were not to participate in searches, we were not gone make much. Most searches were her own, or her partner something. Been so long.
searchers were even getting further advantages.
I had paid upgrades up to level 9 (not from earnings, from my pocket)
I hate searches, I hate getting only that from a PTR, and I hate even more a PTR site punishing you for not doing searches.
QUOTE(the lil crusader @ Jun 27 2004, 05:07 PM)
I just can't buy into this way of thinking. For this to be true, then we all should be expected to sign up for every single PTR we see advertised. After all, unless it was a redemption, somebody paid money for that ad too - right? And the reason they ran the ad for a particular program was in hopes of building their downline which in turn would earn money for them - right?
So if we don't join every single PTR we see advertised in our emails, we're not supporting those advertisers either, are we?
By the same token, if we click on a link knowing it's for a program we're either already in or have seen advertised ad nauseum and have no interest in - that could be considered cheating couldn't it? After all, we're getting paid to click a link knowing that the person who paid for it can't get anything in return for our click.
This all gets so horribly complicated and of course no one is expected to sign up for every PTR (which would be the equivalent of a "valid search").....so why are searches considered such sacred things that must be clicked and followed with a valid search on something....regardless of whether or not we're interested....just because anything less would not be supporting the advertiser?
I've never understood this double standard.
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So if we don't join every single PTR we see advertised in our emails, we're not supporting those advertisers either, are we?
By the same token, if we click on a link knowing it's for a program we're either already in or have seen advertised ad nauseum and have no interest in - that could be considered cheating couldn't it? After all, we're getting paid to click a link knowing that the person who paid for it can't get anything in return for our click.
This all gets so horribly complicated and of course no one is expected to sign up for every PTR (which would be the equivalent of a "valid search").....so why are searches considered such sacred things that must be clicked and followed with a valid search on something....regardless of whether or not we're interested....just because anything less would not be supporting the advertiser?
I've never understood this double standard.
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Lil Crusader, you are so right. I totally agree with everything you said. Some PO's such as Dixie Emails are "forcing" their members to do searches as well. When I click on a search link, I do follow through. But the idea of the WM using a tracking device is just too much for me to swallow. I don't think that's fair to the honest members. If there are some that AREN'T doing the searches, then send them a note, but don't threaten ALL the members. I don't take too kindly of any threats by any WM. If I receive more than one or two, I'm outta there!!!
To me searches are like newspaper ads...just because I LOOK at an ad for something doesn't mean I will buy the item.....but those who advertise in newspapers etc will keep placing ads just on the off chance they will sell something......I will search for something if I am interested in finding more about it.
However do these WM's ever take into account that while most searchers do search with good intentions only to be taken to 3 or 4 different search engines and then get a page saying the page you requested could not be found, you are behind a proxy(which I'm not), searches from this country are not allowed (I'm in Australia) or the best one I have had to date after going through 6 search engine redirections "Sorry the advertiser has requested no searches from your country". How am I supposed to contribute to a valid click rate when I get this kind of thing happening???
However do these WM's ever take into account that while most searchers do search with good intentions only to be taken to 3 or 4 different search engines and then get a page saying the page you requested could not be found, you are behind a proxy(which I'm not), searches from this country are not allowed (I'm in Australia) or the best one I have had to date after going through 6 search engine redirections "Sorry the advertiser has requested no searches from your country". How am I supposed to contribute to a valid click rate when I get this kind of thing happening???
It seems most people don't like searches - I dont mind, partially because Im a webdesigner and Im constantly looking for the latest trends in design, or it seems like I have something or another for which I need to search.
Secondly, it seems that PTR pretty much comes down to two types of sites, searches and other PTR programs as far as what's advertised. Searches provide me with the addtional opportunity to see products that I might not otherwise see because they're so buried in the MSN/Google/Yahoo rankings or can't afford to be highly ranked elsewhere.
Sometimes it leads to an impulse buy (I recently purchased a rubber chicken) so all in all, I don't think its a bad trade.
Im paid to recieve these emails only, however, the moment I feel like I must search, or this is all you offer for advertisers, I'll go elsewhere.
Secondly, it seems that PTR pretty much comes down to two types of sites, searches and other PTR programs as far as what's advertised. Searches provide me with the addtional opportunity to see products that I might not otherwise see because they're so buried in the MSN/Google/Yahoo rankings or can't afford to be highly ranked elsewhere.
Sometimes it leads to an impulse buy (I recently purchased a rubber chicken) so all in all, I don't think its a bad trade.
Im paid to recieve these emails only, however, the moment I feel like I must search, or this is all you offer for advertisers, I'll go elsewhere.
QUOTE(ClarkBartron @ Sep 10 2004, 01:04 AM)
It seems most people don't like searches - I dont mind, partially because Im a webdesigner and Im constantly looking for the latest trends in design, or it seems like I have something or another for which I need to search.
Secondly, it seems that PTR pretty much comes down to two types of sites, searches and other PTR programs as far as what's advertised. Searches provide me with the addtional opportunity to see products that I might not otherwise see because they're so buried in the MSN/Google/Yahoo rankings or can't afford to be highly ranked elsewhere.
Sometimes it leads to an impulse buy (I recently purchased a rubber chicken) so all in all, I don't think its a bad trade.
Im paid to recieve these emails only, however, the moment I feel like I must search, or this is all you offer for advertisers, I'll go elsewhere.
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Secondly, it seems that PTR pretty much comes down to two types of sites, searches and other PTR programs as far as what's advertised. Searches provide me with the addtional opportunity to see products that I might not otherwise see because they're so buried in the MSN/Google/Yahoo rankings or can't afford to be highly ranked elsewhere.
Sometimes it leads to an impulse buy (I recently purchased a rubber chicken) so all in all, I don't think its a bad trade.
Im paid to recieve these emails only, however, the moment I feel like I must search, or this is all you offer for advertisers, I'll go elsewhere.
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A rubber chicken you say? I must inquire... what was searched for and what in the you-know-what lead you to buy one of those things??
And most importantly... what is the point of them??
Another wm do same as this site too..
QUOTE(WSYNG @ Sep 10 2004, 01:24 AM)
Another wm do same as this site too..
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sadly many do.
I advertise search engines. Some sites I get 70+ searches from 500 clicks and it's a miracle. Some I get about 30 or so from 400 clicks, some even less....
But they are only paid to visit the site, not paid to search. If they don't want to search I understand. Being a PO myself (yes I know my site is down, don't remind me *cries* ) I also know about the side of the advertisers. If results for searches aren't profitable there won't be any more searches from that advertiser...
BUT I feel, as some of us do here that it goes the same for regular ads too. Other PTRs, bubble games, ebay auctions, surf sites, ect ect ect... support in any way shape or form is VOLUNTARY but APPRICIATED.
I advertise sites too. I might get one or maybe even NO referrals for a site but at least I can see X amount of people gave it a look and it might help me later down the road to pick and choose what to promote where...
Just my $1.96
QUOTE(RomeoMacini @ Sep 10 2004, 01:18 PM)
A rubber chicken you say? I must inquire... what was searched for and what in the you-know-what lead you to buy one of those things??
And most importantly... what is the point of them??
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And most importantly... what is the point of them??
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Pure comedic value, my friend...and the listing was 'gag jokes' or something of that nature.
Edited to add....
Besides, you never know when you're gonna run out.
QUOTE(ClarkBartron @ Sep 10 2004, 12:39 AM)
Pure comedic value, my friend...and the listing was 'gag jokes' or something of that nature.
Edited to add....
Besides, you never know when you're gonna run out.
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Edited to add....
Besides, you never know when you're gonna run out.
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*nodding head in total agreement*
Don't ya just hate when that happens?
And you're left sitting there shaking your head and thinking.........
"Where the heck did all my rubber chickens go?"
Thanks for the crack-up Clark
It drives me crazy when I get emails saying that they track the searches, that they have this almighty technology that doesnt even exist, like cash for action and that lot saying that they have this all powerful tracking that can tell them who searches and who doesnt, it is completely imposible to track those details especially with the engines they advertise. I dont care what WM tells you different or if they are even the most respected WM in this forum, it is completely impossible to track such details, only the search engine webmasters knows the details of a click thru, the affiliate has no tool that can tell them who does or does not use there engines. The only thing those webmasters see is numbers, they see how many valid searches they received and that is it, theres no detail no nothing, some give details on the keyword that was searched but thats about as detailed as they get. So never let a WM even insinuate that you have to search, id even delete there email if the subject so much as says "Paid Search" that subject alone can get them booted from the engine. Too many webmasters are pushing that thin little line and its gonna cost us all big time if they dont straighten up.
QUOTE(ClarkBartron @ Sep 10 2004, 01:39 AM)
Pure comedic value, my friend...and the listing was 'gag jokes' or something of that nature.
Edited to add....
Besides, you never know when you're gonna run out.
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Edited to add....
Besides, you never know when you're gonna run out.
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Thus I figured... but I had to ask becuase you never know lol...
Being a comedian myself (yes I don't lie in my siggy, got shows all over)... I was curious... and who knows I might make a joke out of this whole thing and use it one night...
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Nah!
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