It has been a long while since I have ranted in the forum, and I usually have to be pretty fed up to do so!

I think I am getting a complex. Everyday, I login to my email to happily open my paid mails and earn some extra cash... By the third one I am already tired of being called a cheat-bot! (That is IF I get past the ones promising me to enlarge certain parts of my body that are non-exsistant seein's how I am a woman LOL BAD SPAMMERS!!! LOL

Can I pose a question? How many cheat systems do we actually have to endure in order to make 1/4 of a cent?

First you enter a password to login to your email, then you open your email and click your link, then you login to the site, then you wait the 30 - 60 seconds to read over the site and let the timer run its course, then if the email contains more than one link, click the next one - which you don't have to login for THIS time, but you do have to wait another 30 seconds or so for the turing number to show up... if you dont get the nice empty boxes with an "x" in it. Face it... it's taking tooo long for many of these sites to load to begin with!!!!

What is next? Is everyone so paranoid about cheaters that it is causing good members to want to quit programs not to go thru this hassle?

I am coming to that point where I want to resign from programs bombarding me with timers that have to expire before clicking another link and cheat-bot turing numbers and cheat links hidden in the emails... I don't click on the cheat links, but I am curious... do you have to enter a turing number to get deleted for clicking one of those???????

Please webmasters... consider canning those time wasters - the updated scripts available these days along with cheat links should be way enough to stop cheaters in their tracks.

yes, it gets pretty irritating that i hv to click the turing numbers more than twice for every programmes that has them on.

and to hv turing numbers on for ptc's are juz. . . i dont know what to say.


juz my 0.0025 cents worth

In the name of 'cheating', everything is allowed these days. It makes me think of another thing that's become a trend these days. Where something used to be an illegal action, it is now labeled terrorism. One would think cheaters would be labeled online-terrorists by now. But the day's not over yet.

Eld.

Edit: not meant to be offensive, btw. It's just an observation. The morale: Suddenly everybody goes along with a trend.

I have tto agree with you about time wasters............I am on the computer a lot of hours a day and i am having a hard time getting much done, like you said it takes so long to get to the link that its not worth it............LOL..............then you worry if after it all .......you will be paid if you reach payout! I am as frustrated as you are

Wow, do I agree. I belong to one site that throws up those numbers every 3rd or 4th click. In fact I just did a second number on my 3rd email from them. And add to it that you can't make out the numbers or there is no matching number. (Had to refresh to get a number that matched) <sigh> I am depressed. But I love the WM and know the site is gonna be around so I HAVE to put up with it.
Hugs,
Kim

"Cheat link. Do not click!" CLICK "To make sure you are no auto-bot, please enter turing number" CLICK <timer starts, you realize you clicked a cheat banner, you try to close the page> CLICK "Enter matching number to close the page CLICK

LOL Eldritch! That about sums it up.
Hugs,
Kim (and yes, I am on dialup)

Hello,

It's true, turing number is a waste of time for honest members

BUT it's working against cheaters scripts, they can't pass those turing number so it's a good thing

BUT I would suggest to wm to disabble that turing number and activate it only for suspect member

unless they are running the very first release of the turing numbers will not come up each and every ad, unless of course you are loading all your emails by clicking on all the links and waiting for them to load. and in that case you open a buch of windows all waiting for the turing number to be clicked.

Also if you just opwn the one page instead of opeing 20 in the backgroud you will find that the images probably will load fine.


But if you get a turing number, click on it correct and see an add and then you see a turing number on the next ad, tell the po to upgrade the scripts its only 15 versions out of date


what sites are you having to click on the turning numbers each ad

but for cheater, that will be a very big program! no cheat software can identify the turning number.

some time turning number picture can not be showed correctly, this is a problem.

Turing numbers... I can live with it. I check emails 1x or 2x a week and then usualy I get 10 or more links form one program and I need to enter turing number only for 1th link. But don't know why I need to login every time when I go to some sites (not all but most)... So, I need to find login info for each site and it take time... so I would not check emails every day (cause faster is to wait for 5 or 10 or more emails from one program and then check them). What I don't like is to wait before timer run out to click on next link. NEVER!!! It's stupit method. It take to much time and decrase program click rate...

in AYS, i got turing number for the first mail, and clicked it. then proceed clicking... all the rest of AYS emails that i hv in the inbox. when i stopped for a while, i will then need to click turing numbers again.

is this the updated versions? if it is.. i think making us click one turing number in the time frame of 24 hours is better instead of hving to click them every time we stop clickin for half an hour.

yet again, juz my 0.0025 cents worth

What a conundrum! We ALL want the same thing, to make money! (I don't mind a humourous observation along the way.)

As I understand it, automatic link readers can screen specific links based on the link name. They display the ad for the requisite amount of time, and then go onto the next. Users don't have to open the emails, or even click to close an advertiser's screen.

Those of us who are serious about earning a living on-line wouldn't dream of being cut off at the knees by using such a programme. Even with a fast ADSL line, I'm being grounded by the amount of graphics and POP UPs being killed - sometimes it takes 2 minutes to clear the back log. ---- May I make a plea for webmasters to keep the site graphics to a level which every one access.

Here's my two bits: I vote with the OCCASIONAL turing number requirement for REAL mails. Then make that link mandatory - eg they must have clicked on at least every 2nd one in order to receive credit for links clicked after that date.

Cheaters get caught, advertisers get their adverts read. We find lots of goodies to consider and we ALL make money!


PS I use MyIE (available at http://download.com.com) as my browser. It has the abililty to stop the download of graphics for the autosurf sites I frequent. Just make sure you turn it back on when you hit the PTR/PTC sites, or you might find you've just hit a link which is for cheaters!

Sand have you tried clearing your cookies? I would be willing to work on with to you resolve your log in issue. email me at hosting at myecom.net
if i can get access from one of the site owners that you are having the porblme with then i can try things on the scripts and see if that helps. so far however clearing your cookies has resolved the problem for everyone i have talked to about it exccpect for one site and i belive that becuase they are running 2 copies of the scripts one a www and one on another subdomain and i belive its becuase the users have a different username and password for each site causing the autologin to reset each time they log into one site or another on the same domain

jake19
kerpulk has the newest version you sould not be having this problme. it sould only come up every 30 minutes, also you will probably not even show up in the turing bad click report. only members that have clicked on the wrong turing number more then the advergae of all the members that click on the wrong number even show up in this report.

jake can you tell me exacly what steps you take. are the turing numbers coming up for each ptc ad or just email ads? if email ads do you just click on the fisrt one, take care of login and turing before loading any of the other ads in the email


neha unfortunaly the more i spread the time the less affitec they are. all a cheater woudl have to do is log in once a day and click on the right turning number and then run his email reader program the rest of the day. if the gap was 24 hours. realy even 30 minutes gives them a pretty good window to still do this, however becuase its so close that chances are (beings most cheaters are lazy thats why they cheat) they will screw up more often then not.

I liked someones idea about the site owner being able to tag accounts they think are cheating to have those use the turing numbers (and best make it all the time). instead of the other way around. this is a real good idea. i dont remember where i read the post. it may have even been in this thread but i will try to ad that option.

this will alow someone to tag an account they think is cheating to be asked for turing numbers each click and then monitor the results. if its a cheater 1 of 2 things will happen in most cases. 1 his bot will try clicking on the turning numbers causing the count to rise big time becuase the supected cheaters account would be asked for turing on each ad, or his cheat bot will not even know to click on the turing numbers and all of a sudon the cheater will not be recorded as clicking on any ads, and more then likely becuase they have it automated have no idea their cheat program is not working so will not even contact the site owner.

or if is a real person clicking they will notice rigth away that they are getting tuning numbers on each ad and contact the site owner to find out why.

but first before i add that i would like to find out why some of you are having turing numbers on each page

also for the sites wher you cant see the links to click for the turing numbers all they need to do is contact me on how to set up their template for their colors and i will tell them (all they have to do is add a font tag in the template to set the colors for the links

john

thanx for the explanation. not blaming u tho. juz venting here lol!

i hate to say it but, you guys have no ideah how many cheaters we delete on a dilay baises, i mean, people with over 40+ accounts some times. i know that the turing numbers are a pain, but i mean its a way for us to weede out the people who want to earn money and those who want to cheat the system.

I must of struck a chord with at least a couple of people I got this in my email this morning... (Thanks Hilda, and I hope you don't mind me quoting you

"Hey all I wanted to send you all out a quick
note,concerning these new cheat numbers.I will only
once a week send out a link with the numbers on
it.I am so tired of these sites that every single
link you have to click the numbers.Its stupid
where they can catch them by doing it once a week.
I think seriously that if a webmaster
thinks that they need me to click on numbers for 1
freaken point then they need a new brain.After just
clicking about the 50th number so far this
morning and geting slowed down big time by it i am one
ticked off lady.There is no need in every link at
any site to be a cheat link.
So therefor you will NOT see that going on
here! Unlike other webmasters im not paranoid.The
only times that i will make you click on the
numbers will be if a paid advertiser requests it or
if its my once a week check."
Hilda (PMBucks)

John... is it possible to at least turn them off for the paid to clicks or is there a big way to cheat on paid to clicks requiring them to have them there as well?

Yes... I am on Dial up.. so pages from ones with lots of graphics literally take a minute or more to load the turing number as well. Someone PLEASE come up with a decent solution, as I believe this to be a big problem. At least for me.

Thanks for all your posts!!!

Billie, Webmistress - Total-Email (ps. I don't have them there and never will.. I have no problem catching cheaters LOL

the problem i'm having is this: click a mail for one site, do turing number, read site. click next mail for site 2, do turing number, read site...click next mail for site 1 again, and have to do turing number yet again...even though i just did it a minute ago. hauling-cash comes to mind here.

Total,

Why dont you email your webmaster and ask each of them to turn it off for just you. That can be done easily.

Turn it off. It really potty me off. But I always the number correct.

I have already receive 4 turning number but I got all of them correctly.

While I don't dance for joy when I have to click the turing #'s, I really don't have a big problem with them, if it means that I'll get paid because of less cheaters. I know they aren't a cureall for cheaters, but for every one of them caught, that's one more chunk of change for honest members.

I especially like the way AprilGold's has fixed hers. Her's are larger than any other I have come across, and she doesn't come right out and accuse members of cheating. She just wants to make sure we didn't fall asleep on her. It's so great not to be lumped in with the "no goods" for once. lol

I for one have said the anti cheat methods have gone to far. With turning numbers it is not necessary to put them in the email. As far as I am concerned, the ones in the email are not cheat catchers but "Do You Read" links.

The turning numbers I use on a random basis and it has pulled up a few using software.

I personally don't feel that it is necessary to use them daily 24/7.

There are methods to catch those with software doing PTC's and it does not interfere in the least with honest members.

It's overkill folks....turning numbers could be random, we have scripts that pick up those with multiple accounts that turning numbers don't catch.

And as to the check off boxes for the types of mail you wish to recieve...I find it most annoying to see, "I am a cheat, I do not read english, I use cheat software"

The only ones hurt by this over kill of anti cheat methods are the good honest hardworking members.

It's time to cut back...the scripts are better at catching the cheats.

Let's quit driving our good members insane.

(another added note which is a pet peeve of mine are the timers saying you must let timers expire before opening a new link...for people with dial up it is a time killer, then to add to it the link is for 20 seconds or longer....

I'll admit we want the Ads to get the members attention but do you think all those advertisers that paid 2.3 million dollars (not a typo) for a 30 second slot during the superbowl felt that every TV viewer was sitting there watching their Ad?

I somehow don't think they did. Big advertisers know it is repitition that catches the eye not an extended period of time for one Ad blasting their wares.

Most people if you are like me, use the Advertisement breaks to go to the bathroom or get myself a drink/snack.

I think it's time to be a little more realistic with our expectations here as far as advertising goes. Having those blessed timers for one link at a time does "NOT" make the advertisement any more effective.

In fact I think they make them less effective. Why you may ask?

1. If there is more than one link in the email, 9 chances out of 10, I'm going to delete the email after clicking the first link because I don't have the time to waste waiting for the timer to tock down for me to open the next link.
(in fact on cable I have had times where it takes a minute or more for the ad itself to load before the timer even begings)

2. If I don't delete the email, I will be multitasking...meaning I will look at the ad, if I am not interested, I pull up another window while the timer counts down and do something else...close it when it is done, click the next link in that email, check the ad, if no interest go back to what I was doing.

So, instead of having my full attention for 10 sec or so...you just lost it because you turned me off with the one link at a time timer. I probably could have reached payout at a few sites that use them...but...I do not have the time.

Face it...most of us are on limited time frames doing more emails than we should. We do the best we can to give our attention to the Advertiser but when we have to take so much care that:

a. we don't click a cheat link in the email (wasted 20 secs)
b. wait for the turning number to load (wasted 10 or 20 secs plus)
c. wait for the Ad to load (5 secs plus)
d. wait for the timer to expire before going to the next ad (wasted 30 sec or more)

People with an outside job, kids, a life off line...do NOT have the time for the overkill.

In nursing we had something called reality orientation...well...it's time for some reality orientation in the PTR world all parties included...webmasters, members, advertisers.

I don't mind them that much personally.

If they help trip up the cheaters out there then I'm willing to deal with them.

Im very suprise Webmaster has not created a new scripts.

Turing Color Matches. You have to figure out the color appear in the screen.

You have to match the color green,yellow,grays and many more

I have seen it in shareadspace all the time.

Webmaster Has not created a new scripts like matching symbol.

You have to match car symbol, circle and many more.

Do you think Turing number are going to far. Wait a minute if you are webmasterquest member take a look at their stuff.

while i see the benefit of having turing numbers, or even having to log in to view higher paying links, i see absolutely no benefit in having timers or turing numbers to advertise other ptr sites.

unless that person has paid a higher price for their ad than the regular payment link, i don't think anyone pays much attention to the ad period.

i think it would be more beneficial to place turing numbers on links that are different, or at least higher paying (to the po, i mean)

what makes the ad for susie's paid mail any different on any site. when it comes down to it, you are looking at the same things over and over in most of the ads you see.

the turing numbers or log-in links could sort of give you a heads up that you are about to see something different, or at least something that someone was willing to pay higher bucks for.

as far as the thing about cheaters goes, it so amazes me that some po's rant about cheaters while others feel like the plain non-turing number links are fine.

when i see a site with turing numbers on each link (cash, points, everything) i start to wonder if they really even want me to see the ad. after all, if they don't have to pay me, they can keep that penny for themselves; though i'm sure the advertiser wouldn't like that.


mainly, when i see the sites who scream of CHEATERS and WE NEED OUR TURING NUMBERS,

i think to myself,

maybe "thou dost protest too much"

just my thoughts

I agree they are irritating. My site doesn't have them, but it's only because of the script I use. To those who asked about the turing numbers on cheat links - Eldrich's description was accurate (I clicked one by mistake, but then I decided I would rather be a bot than a cheater that day).

For those who doubt - I have about 10% of my members that are known cheaters. I watch them. They don't realise how obvious they are. They go to elaborate lengths to hide, and I can see every move they make.

When they go to cash out, they will be in for a rude awakening.

Hi Jorjias

Re: KerPlunk

I only ever do their email ads, not ptcs. And I only do one click per email. But the thing comes up every time, and the page with the turing numbers takes forever to load at that site. I will probably just end up deleting myself there anyway, so no big deal lol

For other sites, if I do decide to do more than one click in a multi link email, I wait for the timer to run out on each one before opening the next. I thought every site had that "you must let ad timers expire before clicking the next ad"

In general, I feel that if cheaters destroy this business, it will be because the honest people get tired of all the anti-cheat methods and give up on the whole thing. Yes, I hate that there are cheaters as much as the next person. I hate people who do multiple sign ups - especially when they are using a paid to signup to do this and burning two sites by doing it.

But really, it is all becoming too hard... don't sign up with this email address, if you do it must be because you can't speak english.... don't click this interest when setting up your profile.... here's your first email, click the right number.... here's a cheat link email, don't click it.... here's a cheat link PTC, don't click it... and here's the 5 emails from admin telling all the people off who signed up with the wrong email address, clicked the cheat interests, clicked the wrong number, clicked the cheat email, clicked the cheat ptc. It never ends.

And all I care about is: where are the actual paid links?!?

I gotta weigh in on this one.

I see a lot of people complaining about turing numbers, and cheat links.
If cheating wasn't a problem, we wouldn't have to deal with this stuff.

In a perfect world, every member would actually Read the emails, and
actually Visit the advertisers' sites.

The problem is, we're not in a perfect world.

In the world of the PO, we deal with all kinds of novel ways people cook up
to try to steal not only our money, but Yours too.

I agree, the turing numbers can be a pain if not setup right.
On my sites, the numbers only come up Once per hour per user.
Everyone hates cheat links, we know that, the turing numbers are
a relatively painless way to avoid using as many cheat links.

If anyone can come up with a better way to keep
the lowlifes from cheating honest programs I'd be more than happy to hear 'em.


If you're having a problem with the images loading for the numbers,
it's a sign of either a server glitch, or more often a misconfiguration error.
(Somebody Goofed)

The latest version of the CC scripts seem to be working fine with the turing numbers.

Remember guys, the anti cheat stuff isn't there just because we want to annoy you.
That's just a bonus! p (Just Kidding)

Have a great day,

Rich c

I don't normally visit the GPF, and I tend not to post since in most cases I find that it results in a lot of abuse the poster has to put up with, but hey, it's a free country!

I was sent a link to this section by a friend of mine, so I took the time to read all the posts, and well ... Some of the things just blow my mind.

I am a program owner. I start FatCatClicks back in Dec 03, and just took over the YellowCats PTR Feb 2nd. The way I see it, and I know most of you will not agree, since it is MY BANK ACCOUNT paying for things, I will take whatever steps are needed to prevent cheaters from getting any of it.

I see a lot of you dont like having to login often when doing the paid mails. Hey, not crazy about it myself! But here is a little something I learned . . .

After starting FatCats with CC scripts, I was finding that the Find Cheaters reports were not producing any results, even though when I looked into every account I found some on my own. So, I tried something ... I sent out a batch of 5 paid mails one time, with 3 of them set for manual logon. Now mind you, I just did a cheater report check 24 hours before. Guess what??? Doing those manuals like that ended up throwing over 45 accounts on the cheater list the next day.

I don't know why or if it's a bug, I just know it worked for me. I just did this same thing when I took over YellowCats, and BAM, 48 accounts found cheating even though none exist before doing so. Hmmmmmmmm. When I say cheaters, I mean they come up with the same IP#, computer ID, operating system, crowser, etc., a 100% perfect match.

Touring Numbers ... Also not real crazy about them! I have touring numbers enabled on both my sites and it will stay that way. For those who are seeing them come up with every click, that's a problem that needs to be looked into, as that is really just crazy. I get all the mails like my members do, and I click them all to make sure I did not mess up. In general, I find that I have to login on the first mail, then sometimes the second link will bring up the touring number, but then nothing after that.

Mind you, yes I agree the are a pain. I try my best to help out with it. I found where I could "enlarge" the size of the numbers, and I have done so at both site. Instead of the default 20x20, they show at 60x60, and that is BIG! Thanks to another PO who sent me the info, I will also go in and change the color of the numbers to make it even easier. my goal being this - Make it as easy as you can for the "real" and the "honest" members, and make it as hard as you can for the "fake" and "cheating" members.

Another issue - what to do with cheaters? I read where some PO's are leaving them in the database and will deal with them when they request cashout. That is what I was going to do at first, but I realized a problem with that, two in fact ... 1) You would then have to audit every single redemption request for advertising, unless you want to pay for the advertising that cheater is trying to get. and 2) If I leave them in the database, I would then be misleading advertisers. For example: If you have 1,000 total members and 100 known cheaters in the system, but the advertiser takes out an ad based on the total membership of 1,000, he or she is being cheated by 100 or 10%. I might be wrong, but I call that fraud.

As such, I delete them, make a record of it, and if they come back to open a new account, I delete that one and then block their IP# to stop the circle. Saves me LOTS of time having to go back and re-delete all the time as well.

One last item - The interest categories. On both my sites, I have "catch 'em" terms listed, such as "Dont Understand English". Again, I do this so that when an advertiser pays for an ad to say 1,000, then by god that ad is going to 1,000 "real" members who can actually READ English. I think that is fair. The TOS (Terms of Service) agreement clearly states you must be able to read, understand, and type in standard English. Hence, when I do an audit and find account with Dont Understand English checked, they get the boot.

I give out a LOT bonuses to my honest members, and I love doing so. It makes my day when I can give away advertising, money, etc. But the number of and value of those bonuses would be cut bigtime if I did not do "my" job of making sure the cheaters did not get those bonuses.

Enough said ... Bring on the flamming arrows (anyone got water???)

fatcatclicks,

thanks for giving the other side of things. i actually understood what you were trying to say and the reasoning behind the turing numbers, etc.

guess i'll put up with them for a bit more.

still don't like them though

Unfortunately even some of the "better" sites (no naming of names:) ) are configured to ask fo a touring number on virtually 100% of the mails.

As long as i am not bombarded with touring numbers during a session i don't mind them even though i suspect that they do not stop the really sophisticated cheat bots.

So much for my general thoughts on the matter.

There is something specific that i wish to bring up.

As many of you should have noticed the possibility that the number in the grid is not amongst the choices given for clicking is VERY remote.

However, according to my observations, when it happens it does not happen only once during that particular session with that particular site. I am not sure if this is just coincidence, all i know is that it happens in my case.

What made me today search for a thread on this topic and led me to post this, is that today i am having (it is still going on as i write this) the most extreme case to date.

As i write this i am still in the manual surf of a site (No naming of names - WM has already been notified). Site is using CashCrusader scripts. I am not sure how many pages i surfed so far (certainly well under the 100 mark) and i have counted FOURTEEN cases where the number in the grid was not amongst the clicking options.

On two ocassions my first "refresh" request did not result in a valid combination of grid/clicking options.

Fortunately only on one ocassion was there a number amongst the clicking choices that was very similar to the number in the grid. Since i was already on alert, i did not click it.

My point is that WMs should be aware of this situtation and be VERY lenient when they are faced with a user that has a good record "so far", but suddenly in one day makes 2 or 3 or even 4 wrong clicks.

P.S. To make it more clear. This is the first time that i experience a "failure rate" that is well above the 10% mark. However this is not the first time that i get several failures during a session. Previous instances involved other sites involving Cashcrusader.

Although i have no experience in the particular field i am a programmer. My hunch is that it is not a script bug but some temporary flawed condition in the machine running it.

But if you spend ages just trying to get to that site, are you really going to spend as much time as you otherwise would? I wonder how many members don't bother with the site once they actualy get there.

Just today I had at least 10 clicks from emails where the touring no didn't come up, no matter how much I refreshed etc. That is getting ridiculous. So not only did I miss out on the earnings from those ads, I wasted time on it as well. and when you consider that they are 1/4 cent clicks - why bother? It's just not worth it. So in the end it will be the honest members leaving sites like that, and the only ones staying will be the cheaters.

Just my 2 cents worth....

i try to make everyone happy. I sent 10-15 mails/day and only in 1-2 are turing numbers, sometimes they aren't in any mail. I think as unfair treating memebers as POTENTIAL cheaters, but i think it's necessary to keep members base clean. Who of the advertisers will be happy with refs, who are cheaters?

I don't think any honest member (myself included) would have any problems with that at all. The problem is with sites where EVERY link had a touring no.

whats heppening? why you bumped up half year old post instead of starting new one?