taxlady has decided to raise payout from $10 to $20 in order to avoid being bankrupt because of merging CopperCoins & Mec-Co-Op-Paidmail earnings together. This is bad news for most of the members.

Well though we understand taxlady's condition, what is the use of merging if we can't cashout the remaining $10? Its the same as not merging, unless if the payout is $15 or you get full payment when reached $20, then its still alright.

By doing this, means we can't actually cashout our earnings from CopperCoins and makes it even harder to reach $20 cashout even without the merger.

Ok, not trying to start another feud here, but how does this make sense?

Payout is still $10 (you just need to have earned $20 to redeem)

If payout is $10, then why can't you cash out? Payout is $20. I am wondering...does this mean that if you have earned $20 you still only get $10????

And furthermore, why doesn't she just pay all money due to Coppercoins members? From my understanding, Mec-Co-Op-Paidmail had financial problems due to bad advice from Cash Read. This is completely understandable sice Cash Read wasn't found to be a scam until after. But she started Coppercoins after that without the influence of Cash Read. This was "her" site. There weren't any other outside influences in the decision making process with Coppercoins. So shouldn't all money generated from Coppercoins still be there? These are two different sites. The financial end of them should be separate from each other.

I am sorry carole, this is in no way meant to attack you or your programs, but there is something here that just doesn't add up.

She was probably trying to use the money from CopperCoins to help payout at Mec-Co-Op, even though I agree with you, they should have been 2 seperate companies.

Also, what was failed to be mentioned in the previous 2 posts is that she had 2 paid ads that were reversed by Paypal. One was $20, the other $50 for a total of $70. The same person bought both of them (to me, that looks like a plan from the person that bought it. Pay for it, get it sent, then request refund). She has probably lost that $70 completely, even though she is disputing it and trying to get it back. I hope she does get it back, but I am not holding my breath.

From what I can tell, she's doing the best she can do, given the circumstances.

--Kim

Well if I have $10 in Mec-Co-Op-Paidmail without the merger, I already cashout. Same thing for CopperCoins which I dont have $10 yet. By merging both of my earnings together, I will be even further away from the $20 cashout and what's worse is that I still only get paid $10 when I reach $20.

I was close to $10 payout without the merger and if I know merger means raising payout to $20 & still get paid $10, I rather NOT have any merger since the remaining $10 can not be cashout.

After saying so much... I know this is just temporary but its still not a very good idea.

Even if she keeps the $10 payout, seeing as how right now she doesn't have any money to payout, even if you requested the $10, you wouldn't be able to get it yet. She can't pay if she doesn't have it.

Speaking as someone who herself has had one problem after another the past month, I know how sometimes it could sound like just excuses, when it's actually one thing after another.

If no one is buying an ads with cash right now, she's not going to have any money to payout anyway. From what I understand, everyone is using their points to send ads.

--Kim

This is just a webmaster point of view. Yes, bad things happen, but it is also your responsibility as a webmaster to prepare and be ready for when things go wrong. I put $20 a week into the partnersinemail account for a "rainy day".

It is just like real life...to cover my car payment, insurance, and rent I need $2,100/month. Food, gas for the car, utilities, etc... about $500/month. I have a job that covers all of this. But what if I get laid off one day? That's where the "rainy day" money comes in.

She started these sites and didn't think ahead. She said when she ran an ad sale she brought in $800 that week. Yes, this is all fine and good and it pays members that are waiting to be paid. But in reality is this sale price covering payments that will need to be made to members when they earn from clicking these links? In the end it is just one vicious circle.

I think that she is doing this hoping that the majority of members from Coppercoins that are not a member of Mec-Co-Op will just say "forget this, it isn't worth it". So then she will not have to pay them.

I was once a member of Mec-Co-Op and Coppercoins. But then I took on the responsibility of being a webmaster and didn't have time to be clicking all those links in the emails. So I just cancelled all of my accounts in all paid to read sites.

I also think that majority of webmasters start paid to read sites to build their downlines in other programs. Think about it...as much free advertising as you want. Never have to pay for advertising again. And a lot of them rely on this other source of income. I remember getting emails from Mec-Co-Op and the majority of the email was all of her ref links to programs that she was a member of. It was ridiculous. And I am wondering if half of those programs closed up shop.

But anyways, this just shows poor judgement and planning on her part. And from what I can see, it is constantly going to be like this. One change after another. Eventually the majority of members will unsubscribe. This is what will save her from being in debt. The ones who are faithful to her will stay and support her no matter what. Even if they may never reach payout because of lack of referrals or whatever the case may be. I would love to join her program and become a member again. From talking to her she seems to be a sweet woman who has only the best intentions. But I am sorry to say, I do not know how successful this program will be now.

Of course we know. I think majority of us can wait... but the idea she came up with isn't any better than waiting.

Just like DollarsByEmail, I am owned slightly more than $1 yet I have waited to be paid for more than 1 month already since August. Even though I know he has funds to pay me by PayPal.... At least I know I will sooner or later be paid, just 1 step away.

While Mec-Co-Op-Paidmail, I still have to struggle to reach payout which is my 1st step, and then the 2nd step is wait to get paid. She wouldn't pay from her own pocket, rather make us continue waiting until other people send her money.

I don't have any better ideas, but I think she was willing to take suggestions. If you could suggest something to her, I'm sure she would at least consider it, even if she doesn't go along with it.

--Kim

Maybe she should take on a second job. Burger King is always hiring. Why should other people have to pay for her mistakes?

How about paying what is owed to her members of Coppercoins before she shuts it down?

I have been paid before so this doesn't do me any good, only good for her program only.

Right now I can only think of is... people who have never redemned before can cashout earlier with a lower payout while those who have been paid before must wait to accumulate more to cashout at a higher payout & wait even longer to get paid.

This is a better solution rather than making everyone suffer, we know very well non-builders will take longer time to cashout, so raising to $20 payout, still only builders have a higher chance to get paid again & again. Leaving behind non-builders still struggling to reach the high payout. Eventually the non-builders will quit her program, and she will lose more & more members. So get the idea now? (taxlady if you are reading this.)

I believe this is what she wants.

Ok, lets say she has 5,000 members. Isn't that what she says she has?
Of those 5,000 probably only 500 have considerable downlines.
Now, lets just say each of these 4,500 members each have exactly $3 in earnings.
About 2,000 may quit because it will be near impossible to reach payout within the next 5-10 years.
2,000 X 3= $6,000....$6,000 she no longer has to pay.

Understand what she is doing now?

If she doesn't have the money, she can't pay. I don't know what her personal life is like. I don't know how much money she personally has, but what if she doesn't have it? I mean, at all.

I am sure she owes the members of CopperCoins a lot of money. She only owes me about $1.30 (or around there). I am not sure how many members she had a CopperCoins, but I am sure it was at least 2,000. Say she owes each member $2. That's $4,000. And I am being generous here. I know that some members, with huge downlines, she probably owes a lot more to.

She has other bills to pay in her personal life, in addition to the site fees.

She is at least trying, which is more than most programs. I have seen a lot of programs go under, with no word from the webmasters at all.

She will eventually lower the payout back to $10, after she has money to pay.

If she takes a job at Burger King, or any other public service place, she may as well give up the site, because she'd never have time to run it.

--Kim

Kimberly,

I understand where you are coming from, but it doesn't make sense. There are a lot of gray areas here, that just do not add up. I hope you are taking notes from this as you will be a webmaster soon. All these sites that are struggling and disappearing should be a learning tool for you. And once you become a webmaster and see the money that comes in, how it is earned by members and payed out, then you will not be as quick to defend her. It is true, you see things different as a webmaster. My views on almost everything changed when I became a webmaster. Ok, you said you were working at Burger King was it? Or something like that? When you go into burger king as a customer, you see things different than the person behind the counter. When you work there, doen't that dining room look so much different from the other side of the counter?

LOl...Eln.....I had to laugh at that last line....about the dinning room looking different from the other side of the counter.

No matter where I have worked, things ALWAYS look different when I have been there for a while....You never seem to look at the place you work in the same light....as you did before you were just and outsider.



Now.....I do want to know one thing, and this is a disscusion, I know.....There is no sides, as I respect what everyone says....Eln I know you are webmisstress, so you have an inside knowledge

Why.....If Carole has been duping her members, does she bother to tell us (her members) the score?.....Why wouldn't she just dissappear like other programs or just not pay......I mean there ARE programs that dont pay....and people still sign up for them...One comes to mind, but I wont mention it here .

I am thinking that.....Mec-co-op has always been the marking stone of PTRE programs.....and there were some silly decsions made....I just think there has been some bad business decsions made and now this is what it has come to.
Why would Carole leave her self open to all of this IF she had something to hide?

OK....Please respond

Actually both of you are coming from the same country, using the same ISP.

Erica,

I already told you to call me, Kim, since my friends call me Kim. Are you saying you aren't my friend anymore

Anyway, I work at Kroger, which is a grocery store. Although, I haven't worked in 2 weeks because of my back, so I should say I am SUPPOSED to work at Kroger. I try to see things from my customers point of view, in addition to my own. Although sometimes, I want to kill those customers, because some of them seem to think they are better than me just because I work in a grocery store. The ones that don't know what a STOP sign means really get me! (They run those stop signs at the crosswalk, never even slowing down. We even added speed bumps, and they still just hit 'em hard and keep going. It's not me I'm worried about, it's the kids out there. I just know one of them is going to get hit one day).

I am using the downfalls as a learning tool. My site is going to be kind of like Read Them Well. All emails will be paid emails, but they will start out as point emails. At the end of the month, I will figure out how much was taken in, how many points were given out, and pay according to how much was brought in. I will be a no minimum (just like RTW), so people will be able to request as soon as I do the coversion every month (which will be about 3-5 days after the end of the month). I know that a lot of people don't like point emails, but most points are only redeemable for ads. Mine are going to be redeemable for cash, and I am hoping that each point is worth at least 1cent, but that is going to depend on revenue.

I think that was the downfall of Carole, and lots of others. They offer low advertising, but have high membership. They're sending 1000 paid emails for $10.00, and that doesn't leave anything for referrals earnings. That's why I am doing the point thing. That way, I *always* have enough to pay out, no matter what.

FYI

Coppercoins has taken in less than $150 since it started.

The site cost $150
not to mention an average $30 a month since April for hosting
$15 for domain name

Balance owed out over $3000

So coppercoins is virtually bankrupt.

Rather than just dissapear, i opted to merge the 2 sites,

I think the Temporary $20 earnings for a $10 payout and i say TEMPORARY
It could be a week, month maybe even a year.
It depends on whether enough paid ads come in for me to payout the one's already reaching the payout.

I'm trying my damdest to get this back on track, but it's gonna take time.

99% of the members are applauding my efforts.
1% are coming here and other forums to voice complaints.

So all i have to say, is if you're not gonna back my efforts, you may as well just resign and join another and hope for the best.

My members know that i will do everything in my power to pay them.
jBut the money has got to come in to do it.

If it doesn't i still won't run for the hills and i definately will not offer 10% on the dollar.

I would then stay up 60-90 extra days and just let people redeem for point ads which they then turn over to more ads etc.......

I could opperate for years with nothing but point ads, giving advertisers a way to advertise free.

I don't know what the future is going to bring. I certainly can't predict how many paid ads are gonna come in etc.

All i can do is try.

If you don't trust me, dissapear. (not meant as personal) just a general comment.

Are you trying to say we are the same person? I don't know about Erica, but I live in Athens, GA USA. I am on AOL, so that may be the problem. They recycle ISP numbers.

--Kim

that finance status is worse..
we understand..that fact
carole stancy had worked very hard..

Nope... never. The IP address is slightly different. Example IF your IP address 123.84.76.10 and her IP address 123.84.76.11

She's probably on AOL, too, in that case. I don't know though. She'd have to tell us. Oh, Erica, Erica where-for-art-thou, Erica?

--Kim

AT least one intellegent comment.

I too would like to know why i'd put up with all this rather than just dissapear!

Because i care!!!!!!!!!!
Because i've been screwed out of thousands.
Because i treat my members the way i'd like other webmasters to treat me!

That's why.
So i'm upfront.
Those of you who feel you'll never get paid, cancel your account!
THis is pure idiocy.

The mails i send my members are for my members.

99% have supported my efforts and applauded my honesty.

I have nothing further to say here, and certainly am not going to get on the defensive.

I have too much work to do than take up my valuable time to defend myself against s**t stirrers.
Excuse my French!

Ok, this is probably where Carole went wrong

1. Buying another paid to read site...

I came very close to making this fatal mistake myself. In the beginning I had Partners In Email. Then I purchased another one through ebay. After about 2 weeks, I decided to sell the second site for exactly what I payed for it. In order to be a successful webmaster you need to put all of your time, effort and energy into one site to make it the best you can. I have found that when a webmaster owns 2 or more sites, the same ads go out on both of them. And when you are a member of both, you cannot sign up for the same program being advertised twice. So therefore it creates a deadlock in both programs.

2. Taking advice and holding a share for a program with others...

She never should have done either. Especially when it involves finances. Most people in this world are driven by money. Money rules the world right? People tend to get greedy when there is large sums of money coming in.

3. Combining all funds generated by sites into one account...

A big no no. When you budget your money, do you mix your money for bills with your spending money? Same goes in this situation. These were two seperate sites which should have had two separate sites.

I do believe that this is all due to poor business decisions. There is nothing that can be done now, but sit it out and wait. And I also believe that she has acquired more knowledge in the past week or two, to not allow anything like this to happen again in the future.

Carole, I have one suggestion which I strongly recommend you to consider...allow no more new sign ups on Mec-Co-Op, and once you have the funds from advertising or wherever it comes from, pay all of your members, shut down the site, purchase a new one and start over. I do believe that this "new" site could possibly become one of the most successful PTR sites on the web. And with all of your knowledge that you do have now, apply that to the site and and give it your all.

Please explain how you the balance owed to members is $3000 when all it brought in was $150?

Yes I was wondering this as well. As a current member of coppercoins what have I been clicking all these paid links for if they aren't making the program any money. Yes I know most of them are search links but you should be making some money on those as well. I click on results everytime I click on one of the email links. I am sure some members don't do that but it should still be making more money than that.

FamilyAffair how do you check the ip addresses?

I belong to Moderators Group so we can see members IP address.

I understand the problem Carole has and can understand why she has raised the minimum payout amount.
My question is: How is anyone going to reach the new payout limit when she is only sending out point emails at present.

Well........If some people would purchase some advertising apart from the cheap point kind, she could send out money links......What do you want her to do...send out her own links for 1 cent, and then get more in debt?

My solution would be....Scrap the points.....They are useless.....If people couldn't buy point advertising they WOULD buy the other kind....People will always go the cheap option......but turn the cheap option to money links and rid the program of the points.

I hate the point links...and there is not many programs I will click them on...they are getting to be like searcjes.........Mec-co-op, was always good to advertise on, without the points.

Mailforcash does the point thing well......and that is the only program that does it properly...They have to have a $ value....and they should not be used to get advertising unless you have a real lot.

Carole....I really think that you should rid the points or, make it so they are in-line with the cost of money links, and put a dollar value on them.

Anywa...I was trying to point out that the reason there were only point mailings is because there were no cash advertising being bought, but there would be, if not for points!

Any search link you click on either site does not make me any money.
They are not mine.

They are from members who have either redeemed for the ad or redeemed earnings or paid via pay-pal/e-gold.

I will not, nor have i ever sent my own searches, nor have i affiliated with any search engine.

That all sounds good Moon, with exception, for 3 weeks prior to points ads, there were very few cash mails.

The point mails keep the ads flowing and allow those who can't afford to pay for ads, an avenue to advertise.

I think a better solution would be to raise the points needed to redeem for a point ad.

I would agree with that....Points can work, if they are used for advertsing, but set at a higher level...that way they seem to be "worth" more......For some reason
A money value helps as well.....But again it would have to be calcualted monthly, by what income you get in......

I just thought I would make those suggestions.......But only you know if they would work in with mec

Okay...for just this once i'm speechless...Carol,just let us redeem our little earnings for ads coz at this rate we are never going to reach payout with your programs.I'm sad and mad but hey,thats the story of my life.
Because of this,i'm slowly but surely learning that the only people who will ever benefit from this stuff are people with incredibly huge downlines and tonnes of patience...unfortunately,i have neither.

Eln has made many intelligent comments during the course of this thread........funny how only the one in defense gets a reply.

She never did explain this.

Uhhhhhh......

How is mailforcash doing it better than anyone else?

I use the point system, but it is carefully designed to maximize the earnings of active members.

The point values vary slightly from month to month, but have been averaging almost 4 cents each.

I have probably sent out a dollar's worth of mails this past week, that is, if a member clicked every paid link in the mails I have sent out this past week, they probably made a dollar.

My payout is only $10. I wanted to make certain that a member with no downline would have a reasonable chance of reaching payout.

I'm a member of Mailforcash. I can't see any special advantage in their points system.

Please enlighten me.

'm sure 99% of you will understand my need to do this.

1% will run to the forums and again call me a scam etc.
Some people just don't have any brains, and whether they realize it or not all those posts
hurt all of us, not just me, because people not understanding what's going on, will avoid the program
but they'll spread the bad word too.

I've been very upfront with all my members at both sites.
Most webmasters won't tell their members the truth. They fool the advertisers also.
They don't delete inactives like i do, therefore an advertiser pays for certain amount of mails
which go out to inactives, and they get zilch in return as their mails aren't being read.








Boy Carol you sire hit the nail on the head with that one......Funny that the one who has the most to say admittedly isn't a member of either program

Just another troublemaker...Now I will sit back and predictably wait for them to attack me because I dare to have an opinion of my own.......I say Bless you Carole ..I will stand behind you If I never see my $3.00 just on princible

Shelly,

I was a member of her programs. So please read all the posts.

The keyword is WAS...leave her alone and don't attack her just for trying to keep her head above water........I don't blame them for running for the hills at the first sign of trouble if this is what they have to deal with

If you do not have anything intelligent to add to this thread, then please do not post.

Oh Eln, that is a funny one ... you saying that :-))

Sophie
( Thanks for the laugh tho ;-) )

Sophecia,

She only came her to tell me to stop bashing Carole, which I am not. Obviously she has made a few mistakes and as a webmaster myself, I intend to learn from the mistakes she has made so this doesn't happen with my program. I still want to know how a site that brought in only $150 is in debt $3000. Does this not seem a little odd to everyone else?

Hi,

Well, I have no clue about the balances, I read 150 US$ coming in then all kind of costs then balance owed : 3000 US$
She didn't say balance owed TO MEMBERS.
I guess she also sent out paid webmaster's ads, increasing the balance owed. Lots of most praised sites send paid webmaster's mails every day.

And maybe you don't realize, it might be cultural, but for a lot of us you're constantly bashing Carole ... and not only Carole .... but, I don't think my opinion has any value to you so ... you do as you like, I just tried to answer the question ;-)

Sophie

Sure, I send out paid emails out to my members also with my own money, but before I send it out, I make sure I put that money in the PIE account before it is sent out. Just because they are her ads doesn't mean she doesn't have to pay. She says that Mec-Co-Op went bad because of bad advice, but it seems as if she made more mistakes on Coppercoins and she had no other influence in the decisions there.

She said hosting was $30/month....since april...that is $150.

So how did she send out $2,850 in advertising?

[quote] She said hosting was $30/month....since april...that is $150.

Ahem ;-)

Sophie

it's a shame that carol didn't skip town isn't it eln?? Then you'd really have something to curse word edited about.

Who said I am curse word edited ?

And sophie, that only explains where the $150 went. How did the site get over $3000 in debt?

I don't know why Taxlady owes 3000 US$, I think like this

If the 30 US$ have to be paid until april it's 30 US$ x 12
Personal ads
Script
Domain etc ...

At least she doesn't run with the money like lots do ..... if she says she owes it it's because she intends to pay it, how and why she'll pay it is none of my business :-)

And I am too tired to discuss this any further I must say ... it's late here :-)

QUOTE (tmk1075 @ Oct 6 2002, 04:15 AM)
Yes I was wondering this as well. As a current member of coppercoins what have I been clicking all these paid links for if they aren't making the program any money. Yes I know most of them are search links but you should be making some money on those as well. I click on results everytime I click on one of the email links. I am sure some members don't do that but it should still be making more money than that.

FamilyAffair how do you check the ip addresses?

QUOTE (taxlady2 Posted: Oct 6 2002, 08:07 AM)

Any search link you click on either site does not make me any money.
They are not mine.

They are from members who have either redeemed for the ad or redeemed earnings or paid via pay-pal/e-gold.

I will not, nor have i ever sent my own searches, nor have i affiliated with any search engine.


________________________________
Ok if these are not paid links then why are some of them paid. If they are just points redemptions then the should only earn points. (an ongoing cycle but doesn't cost you actual cash money). I still don't understand how you only had $150 come in to the program but had $3000 going out.

Okay..now that you've all had your say and i've half recovered from my shock...i'll say this much...i dont think eln is ######..she's merely got more guts than most of us not only to look at this critically but to question Carol's decisions.
Yes,Carol is a great webmistress by all means and yes i love her but this was a big mistake on her part and she has no one to blame but herself.

Eln i see what youre saying and like i said before,youre not ######..you're simply looking at this from a very frank and "upfront" view that most Carol supporters feel like youre being too confrontational...i call this denial...most of us have "fallen so hard" for Carol..we dont want to believe that she makes bad decisions too but she's only human and she's messed up big time this time around.

And to me,this new policy hurts me more than someone making off with my money...because now this tells me personally that she doesnt give a darn abt me--a person without a huge downline.If she had just made off with the money,i would have sulked a little,cursed alot and then moved on...now i'm going to be sour-graping for a long time,sulking alot and definitely cursing way more than necessary.That is how i personally feel..all bull aside.