This is my reaction to the letter whom I got from Ms Mec-co-oppaid first the letter after that follows the letter I sent to her, I have had it with webmasters from getpaidtoreadprograms who keep accusing members of things they don't do:

Letter from Ms Mec-co:
--- rewards@mec-co-op-paidmail.com wrote:
>
> In this mail, you will find 3 paid mails that ran a
> week ago requiring 4000 or 6000 clicks
>
> They have received 2259,2861,2621
>
> That is shameful for a site with over 9400 members.
>
> These ads were sold as guaranteed clicks
> the 6000 clicks is a $79 ad, there were 2 of them.
>
> So I'm asking you to ask yourselves this!!!
> Why did i join this program????
> I assume you joined to get paid for clicking the
> mails and visiting the sites.
>
> For months i've noticed that any paid mails that i
> send to 9000+ members generate at most 5000 clicks.
>
> So i'm asking you that if you don't intend to click
> the mails and visit the sites to give them your
> consideration, then please go to your member area,
> log in, go to userinfo page and UNSUBSCRIBE.
> Stop wasting my time and money sending you mails you
> don't read.
>
> It costs me bandwidth for every mail i send.
> And while i want to build up a membership, i
> certainly don't need to be sending out 9000 mails
> when only 5000 or less are reading them.
>
> I'd rather sell ads guaranteeing that 4000 members
> will click and get 4000 clicks.
> I'd rather have 4000 active members than 9000
> members 1/2 of which don't bother with the mails or
> block us out of their mailer program.
> It's obvious that 1/2 of you are not participating
> in this program.
>
> I deleted an account yesterday that was an old
> account. It had 36cents personal clicks.
> It wasn't inactive, it just makes no sense.
> Obviously that user just clicked a link or two a
> month. That's not what this is all about.
>
> In all fairness to our advertisers, if you don't
> intend on fully participating in this program, just
> unsubscribe.
>
> Thanks for Reading
>
> Here are the 3 paid mails that need more clicks for
> those of you interested in making money with us.
> If you've already visited these sites, you won't be
> paid again, but if that's the case, please visit the
> unpaid link so you can give these sites your
> consideration. If they interest you, join them.
> These ad's are from our best and most supportive
> advertisers. Without them, i couldn't pay you.
> please show them your appreciation.
>
>
The letter I wrote back to her:
Hi I always click every link you sent to me I am a bit upset by this letter and I will tell you why. I sent out an ad with you the other day expecting to have at least a clickthru rate of 50% not even 1900 members took the effort to click, I have done more paid ads with other CAC sites and one has only 3000 members the other 4100 and I had much more response than with your
over 9000 members. And also more sign ups. Which means as you say yourself a lot don't click so people are paying much too much for the ads. And I myself click always all the links.
I pay ads and click all the links and this is what I get from you??? You are accusing me of something I don't do and let me pay too much for my ad.
I didn't even bother to go to all the forums of whom you said they had negative things to say about you, I don't like that if they do that, but I am starting to feel now that I should show them this very letter that I got from you with my answer to it since I feel what you do is wrong. You know why? Only the people who do click will take the time to read this, not those who
don't click they don't bother to click for money let alone that they will take the time to read it. So the one who will read this aren't the one you should write this to. Just do as all other get paid to read program owners and delete the members who are inactive for an x period and don't waste the time of people who do take the effort to read and click. I am so sure that
those who don't click don't read it so in the end you are wasting your time too by writing the letter.
An Upset member.

Yes I am upset as you see, but I think by now I have every reason to be upset.

Pos

[ 06-09-2002, 08:48 PM: Message edited by: Positive_thougths ]

I used my $20 sign up bonus the other day for a points ad that was sent with a bunch of other point ads which was ok but 2 ads above mine was the same site being advertised. When I sent her an email the response was just wait and see people always click the second link after thinking about it or something like that she wrote. I was very disappointed. I paid $20 for 2 sign ups.

Poor you, I am promoting this site on many places I know I get 5 signup a day without the ad that I sent out through her, 5 signs up daily (yeah I guess I am lucky, mind you I have banners up and safelists to go through and updating my websites to get those 5 for this single program) and as far as I can see I got 15 sign up for those 20 dollars and I was the only one who came up with that program of all those ads, in the end there was one who used it to, the poor girl I think had signed up beneath me and if so she got 5 referrals.
But what got me most from the letter is that she tells us to click I click everything and WE SHOULD CLICK because of the persons who paid for the ad, yeah right. Sure she wants those clicks since the person paid for 6000 clicks, but she knew already only 5000 utmost clicked so how can you sell an ad for 6000 if you only have 5000 active members? Perhaps you can tell me?

About the ads the thing is everyone knows that if you show so many ads in one day you know that most people won't get a lot of response, for her it is good she doesn't have to pay those 20 dollars to many people anymore, but it would have been nice of her if she would have sent 10 ads per day no more, then do it over a longer period and make sure that not 2 or more the same ads are in one mail. Anyway things like this happen that is too bad, as said what really get's to me is selling an ad for 6000 clicks if you know you only got 5000 utmost who click.

Pos

[ 06-09-2002, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: Positive_thougths ]

I too used my $20 sign up bonus a couple of months ago.

I added my own tracking link to the advert and as the advert was for Referral Machine they also had tracking their end.

From 8000 members I had just over 300 click throughs to Referral Machine. This was on both my tracking and on RM tracking.

I wrote and complained and received a reply basically stating that both my tracking and RM's tracking was wrong and MEC's was correct and that I'd received over 3000 click thru's!!!

Needless to say my click thru results were not tracked in my stats at MEC.

Form your own opinion but mine was that my ad was not sent to all members. I believe this happens on many other programs too - one redemption which I will not mention did not even send out my ad!!!

Glad to say my account was deleted at MEC due to inactivity.

Marc

I don't understand why they send their ads the way they do and still manage to get advertisers...

Each email has 5 to 20+ links in it...
Now who in the world would read or look at the sites of 20+ advertisers in 1 email???

And they have advertisements for the same program one after the other for different people, in the same email...
The least, I think, that could be done would be to wait for the next email to send that persons ad.

Ofcourse I cannot be sure but what would be the use not to sent to all the members? I do believe, perhaps not in the case of Mec-co-oppaid I have no knowing of what tracking things are you are referring to what they can or cannot do, but of those who I sent my ads I know they sent it to all the members and it is known that not all members do click, some because of a fault (never receiving or by accident throwing away a mail), some because they had too much that day and had no time and some I have no idea why. But as said it is known that not all click and therefor most getpaidtoprogram owners update there files frequently by removing those who aren't active. A clickthrough rate from less than 30% is unacceptable and if you pay for a garanty amount of clicks you should get all those clicks, not any less.

Bottomline what would be the use of doing that?

Pos

Yes Chris I fully agree you cannot sent so many in one day let alone in one ad, I said 10 in one mail for one day, that is much but perhaps still acceptable. And you cannot as you said put to the same links in one mail, I saw it in many mails as well from her. Perhaps that is why I am not that angry at her, I was one of the first to sent still with the timer on and also wise/lucky enough to sent an CAC site I never see promoted anywhere and *it seems to have worked* I think with me saying *it seems to have worked* I mean it could be worse I got 15 sign ups and probable 5 level 2 from the other after me and not only 2 that is really bad, but still not even 1900 clicks is a way too low clickthrough rate every CAC owner will agree to this I am sure.

Pos

At the time I redeemed if I remember correctly, the $20 redemption was for a paid email.

marc

First of all the mail was not intended to offend those members who are active.

I agree with most of what's been said here about the click ratio. That's the purpose of that mail.

As for 6000 clicks. New members sign up every day, so ads that don't get the clicks they pay for will be re-run until they do.
If i sell 6000 clicks you will eventually get 6000 clicks.

I can't guarantee how many referrals you will get neither can any other webmaster.

With the old CAC scripts i couldn't guarantee clicks so all ads were sent to all members and hoped for good results some got 70% others 40% some even 30%.

To try to alieviate that situation, i started deleting inactives. i deleted over 4000 inactives until i found out by doing so the CAC scripts didn't move downlines up. So a lot of large downlines got messed up royally.

Fortunately, i'm no longer running anything CAC.
It's totally myecom's scripts but they are not complete.

Now keep in mind that i'm the guineu pig for these scripts. There are going to be bugs and i have to deal with the bugs.

I do appologize if anyone took offence, it certainly wasn't meant to offend active members.

Now as for the ads
Most of you webmasters send out 1 paid mail a day so if you sent to 9000 lmembers x 30 days per month you would send 270,000 mails a month.
your hosting bill would be reasonable.

My first hosting bill was $95, 2nd $107, 3rd 84

Last month i reduced my hosting bill to $48 by sending out fewer mails with more links.
By doing that, i'm able to keep the cost of ads down.

I was selling 1cent ads to all for $20 or $25
on average for months.
Now that i can guarantee clicks which i couldn't do before, i'm selling them at 1cent each, which is what i pay out just to the first clicker. This still doesn't reflect my cost to the downline or my hosting bill.

You webmasters should realize that.
If you sent out as many mails as i do a day, and sent them individually, the hosting bill would be over $500 a month.
I don't take in that much!
Sometimes i do, but most of the time, especially now with all these redemptions it's all basically at my cost, because while i'm letting members redeem $20 for the ad, i still have to pay the members for clicking and am giving them $10 or an ad for 5000 points.

I started them at 10 point mails, new redemptions are going out at 5 point mails.

The reason is that i'm trying to reduce the payout from $50 to $10 but can't do that as long as they have their $20 signup bonus.

You do the math 9000 members x $20 = $180,000 debt.

By allowing them to redeem for ads, i'm reducing that debt and insuring that i'll have the funds to payout.

Mec-co-op has paid out over $4,000 since launching in January, and I still have $1500 in reserve and it's growing with each paid mail i get.
This week I sold 3 paid ad's over $200 worth of guaranteed clicks.

Those clicks should have been achieved in 1 mailing in a few days, but unfortunately there's a lot of inactive members.

Now i've explained all this to the members in 3 different e-mails. Obviously none of you took the time to read them and just moved to the paid links.
If you'd bother to read the mails you would know what's going on and not be so cynical.

I've lost 1/2 my downlines in some of your programs because of the rotten CAC scripts you are running and the fact when you delete members the downline of the deleted member doesn't move up.
Since i'm a heavy promoter of most of your programs, i've lost quite a bit.
Do i come to a public forum to complain when i know it's not your fault but the fault of the scripts you purchased in good faith?????NO i don't . Do I e-mail you calling you a crook like some of you have done to me in the past, NO I Don't.

members in general with no understanding of the garbage we purchased, i can understand negativity; when they don't fully understand but when webmasters post negatively and try to ruin a good program with a good reputation, i take offense, so i guess we're even huh?

Obviously, i offended you, because you took it personal when you shouldn't have, and should have understood the concept of what i was saying. And you offended me by your comments about it!
So we're even!

Back up here a minute. I am not a webmaster and my only complaint was that you sent my ad out with the same ad and then when I wrote to you about it I felt your response was rude. I said nothing bad just a fact.

Hi, I am sorry that I offended you, I guess as a member of your site I should know the in and outs. I myself have been working so far the last 5 months full time to get referrals and yes I lost with those programs whom I had a lot of referrals too because of how the scripts are. Many of them. I spent money and usually more than 40 hours a week to get money (referrals) So far in my paypal account you will find 5 dollar. That's is what I earned, you won't find any complaints from me about losing referrals in the whole forum and I am somebody who writes lots in this forum, and I don't like negative publicity either. I am not a GPTRE owner, just a person who believes that if you spent enough time and effort and know how to do it (going to safelists, use ads and many other ways) that eventually I can make a few honderd dollars each month. So far as said all that is left is 5 dollar in my Paypal account. I have never withdrawn money to my bankaccount. First you have to have a lot of referrals in some programs, and the way to do that is to use the money I earn directly in advertising (apart from all the other ways I am trying to get referrals).
Anyway again I am really very sorry that I upset you, I have no reason whatsoever to be angry. I hope you forgive me for putting it here I had no right to do it, I should know how it works and I do see now exactly how your site works. And although you say that most of the things that are said you agree with, I still had no right to say so and you have every reason to be angry at me, since I have no right to find things about any CAC site since I don't own one and I should know how the site works since I am a member of so many. Yours is different than the others but I know that now and am sorry for my so false comment.

Pos

Hey positive.
Thanks for the appology. You've made my day.
First let me say, that my comments to webmasters weren't directed at you!
Obviously not being a webmaster, you're just a concerned member, and you do have a right to post any concerns you may have.

What i object to most of all is seeing a post in a forum that has a subject of scam alert.

I work very hard every day. Obviously offending some here by the amount of mails i send out daily.

What i took offense to is a post by a certain webmaster who owns multiple sites for which i have built very large downlines and been paid multiple times by that webmaster.

That webmaster should know better.

#1 where does he think those referrals came from.
They came directly from my members, because i do not promote anywhere else most of the time.
Once in a while i will use my earnings at another site to promote but i very often just promote by adding to the bottom of paid mails or points mails

'these sites have paid me already'
and i always include that webmasters sites.

That's mainly what i took offence to plus the fact that the post is in a scam alert folder.

What kind of scam????? I send out every mail i get paid for. I offer my members options to redeem a $20 signup bonus for an ad.
Why, here's why.
1. by allowing them to do that with the $20 that i'm giving them, i do it in the hopes they will get good results from the ad, and become paying advertisers.
Kind of like a try before you buy approach!
As i said, on the books, those $20's show up as a $180,000 debt, one i certainly can't afford .
Memebers want the $50 payout to be redeuced to $10 because they already know i will pay, so they are redeeming their $20's for ad's in droves.

Eventually that will all die down, and they will get results, and come back for more paid ads.

Just some 2 cents from a regular GPTR member.
I will simply say, as has been mentioned above, that Carole has always communicated the goings on of both her sites. Yes, there have been problems, but she has always let us know. And she has explained the importance of saving money.(She is in business to make money).
Most members of this forum will agree that taxlady runs the most professional and honest sites out there. She sends constant emails daily(can you say that for the multitudes of other GPTR's out there?)
Have you ever gotten emails for a week straight with just search links for 1/100th of a cent?
As with any business, there will be problems. Carole has recognized the click thru problem and made us aware,so SHE WILL NOT CHEAT HER ADVERTISERS.(the duplicate program links in the same email should be adressed, and I am sure she will take steps to ensure minimal occurence).

I just found it strange that one of the top 5 GPTR programs would be listed under this section!
The site is much better now and I'm sure it will continue to improve.
BTW, Carole, I am saving my $20 redemption for a program that will launch the end of this month.

I am disagreeing with some of the comments mentioned above.
I do not intend to offend any of the members who posted above(including webmasters). Nor do I suggest the errors with advertising are acceptable. Just give Carole a chance.
Just giving my opinion.

Thanks mlmhelp.
You've said it better than i could have!

That's exactly my reaction.
I wouldn't quite put myself in the top 5 but i'd definately say mec-co-op is in the top10
Coppercoins doesn't do as well and i can't afford to supplement with my links the way i did with mec-co-op with mine and the investors, because theres a difference between the $50 payout and the $10 payout.

But finding any negetivity in a scam alert folder bothers me! Really bothers me.
I've been scammed by numersous sites, some that deliberately set out to stick around a few months, make a bundle and never pay out.

I've lost earnings with quite a few good ones that just ended up folding up, like alladvantage, epipo, jotter etc. I still don't consider those scams, just a victim of economics etc.
They paid great for a while, then folded, that's not a scam.

No webmaster can afford to keep a site up forever when there's no revenue coming in.

Having been scammed myself, the last thing i would do is scam anyone else, whether i know them or not, that isn't a factor in my thinking.

What bothers me, is as you say, i keep members informed, obviously you read your mails and just don't scroll down to the paid links like some do.

The one's complaining, or a lot of the support e-mail questions i get and i get tons of em, make it obvious that a lot of members don't read the mails i write to inform members, while others do.

I've been thanked for those mails by many members, and i've also been criticized via e-mail or publicly for wasting someone's time, thinking they were opening a paid mail etc.

You can't please everyone, i just do what i consider good business sense, and public relations and hope that most appreciate my efforts.

Thanks again!
Carole

I think that MEC-Co-Op-Paidmail is a fairly good site if you have many referrals, but I cancelled my membership there because too much e-mail is sent by them, and it is difficult to reach the minimum payment amount without a large number of active referrals.

As for sites not paying members when they shut down, I think that sites should pay some members (such as those which have earned more than $1) when they shut down, and should provide e-mail notification beforehand. Many sites shut down, pay no one, and never notify members by e-mail.

When my redemption buttons stopped working, I ended up in the scam folder, and when the problem got ironed out, there wasnt an apology. This stuff happens to me all the time, and most of it, theres a perfectly genuine explanation, and most of the time, they dont even contact me to query it.

The webmasters get the flack, when its the members who join 100+ programs, bringing down the clickthru ratio. Its the members who support the unrealistic programs claiming to pay $100+, when their ad rates are not adding up, making it harder for genuine companies to compete. Then when webmasters make adjustments, trying to allow their program to survive, we're mobbed.

Alot of us webmasters are working very hard, for peanuts. Alot of this time, how is this paid back? By rude emails when the user doesnt add a capital letter to their email address, and get the "Username doesnt exist" message?

Many of us, sit here, day in, day out thinking of what features we can add to our business. How can we pull in some program revenue? Can we bring up clickthru ratio? How can we make our program better? what can we do to show members we're genuine?

Those are just a few examples. There are alot of webmasters that visit this forum, where it makes their day, just to get 1 email, where a member says that they appreciate what the webmaster is doing for them. There are alot of webmasters in here who are doing the best they can, in the environment in which we have to compete in and face daily.

Alot of these people are providing a service, which doesnt cost the user anything. Yet they expect the red carpet to be rolled out, and be treated royally.

These are just thoughts that come to my mind, and feelings I get alot. I am "not" saying members are bad, that would be a very bad mistake to make, to walk into a forum, and say "Hey you lot suck!" That is not what I am saying. There are alot of members in here who are top promoters, and members in here who I have constantly spoken to. I hold high regard for these people, and for those who write polite support emails, and ask for help in the correct manner, and those who stay calm whilst inside they are raging mad because their account is showing inaccurate information.

I know what webmasters have to put up, and 1 year ago, I was a member myself, and I remember what it is like to be cheated. When I came onto the scene, I brought out a low minimum. This was to show those who had been scammed by other companies, that not all companies are scams. I knew what members felt like, and I tried to make my company stand out.

Now 1 year later, maybe 3 in 10 companies are scams, and members are getting scammed rotten. With this happening, members are more skeptical than normally.

What I am constantly seeing, is very nearly a war, where its MEMBERS VS WEBMASTERS.

Again, I havent said anything bad about my members, i'm talking about generally, the things in which webmasters have to face daily, for practically zero pay. To some webmasters, its not all about money, and my minimums should tell people that. This isnt about me though. I have talked to Tax Lady a few times, and she really does have the members best interests at heart. Then theres Rhea, or Cynthia, or Brenda, all top webmasters. These are people who I know are good, and those are names I can come up with, just off the top of my head. When is the last time you showed a webmaster your gratitude? Maybe send one of them webmasters an e-card to make their day. If good webmasters dont get shown appreciation, they may think, "What the heck? this isnt worth it anymore!" and good webmasters could get driven out.

I have been thinking for a while, about quitting the PTR scene because of these things happening.

I plan on selling 1000 levels, marketingsafelist within the next few months, to reputable owners. After that, i'll evaluate my options, and see if I want to quit PTR altogether. Things in PTR can only get worse. Alot of people are bailing out whilst the going is good.

This isnt down to members though, its basically down to the PTR industry. Also I dont need cards or a pat on the back, those other webmasters do though!

[ 06-12-2002, 09:21 AM: Message edited by: Wayne ]

points2cash they send out TOO many emails? usually the complaints is not enough. I dont agree that u need lots of referrals, i only have 3 referrals and have $3 in my account after than 2 months. not a huge amount but a lot better than most programs. THey do send a lot of links but they just ends up being more money for you.

I do not understand why people get upset about lots of links in one e.mail. I don't see any difference between getting them all at once, and getting them in separate mails, except that the former has an advantage--in AOL, we are allowed to have 1000 mails in one mailbox before they start bouncing (the mails can be any size). If the links are all sent in one mail, the mailbox is less likely to get full.

Also, I only have 1 referral left after all the inactives and such got deleted (with Mec-co-op), and I have 27.7643--more than halfway to payout. I will definitely hang in there until payout (at least). I think it's a great program, and the more mails sent, the better!

Oops, I want to change what I just wrote--I just read the e.mail from Mec-co-op stating the change in terms where those who got the $20 signing bonus must use it to send a paid ad to members...but the minimum payout is now $10, so I am closer to payout than I thought.

Hey, Taxlady, don't feel too bad about sending that letter. I think you've figured out by now, the message doesn't get read by the people you meant to get through to. I figure you were just letting off a little frustration, and you are FAR from the worst at this. Heck, some of these sites delete accounts,debit accounts up to $5, etc, when they see a complaint against them. What you did is much more reasonable.
P.S. I believe mec-co-op will be one of the last of these sites standing in 3 years, BECAUSE of the things many people have been complaining about. To wit:You recognized the problems with cac scripts, and did replace them; YOU CAN ADD(lol)and did the math on the payouts, and found a fair way out of $180,000 debt. Plus the fact that MOST members who are not webmasters would've hit the $50 payout mark all in the same month,leaving you pwing $50,000-$100,000 in a single month.Also, you DO send out at least twice as many paid emails as any other site that I, personally, am signed up on, which means members will reach payout quicker.

I'm a reader at mec-coop and I have only recently joined, I'm thinking of unsubscribing because not many of the links will load and I can't keep them for another time as I have to keep my e-mail box relatively empty for the other GPTR's and safelist mails

Sorry but the concept is good just wish they would load :s